georgeyw

Sorry should have said that actual look.

What about join pages ? Do you experiment with them?

__________________
TripleXPrint on Megan Fox
"I would STILL suck her pussy until her face caved in. And then blow her up and do it again!"

Robbie

To some degree I did a few years ago. But haven't since the tour design changed (that's when I changed the join page as well)

I'm always open to listening to ideas.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Dirty F

I do well below 1:500 on organic traffic. Full price memberships. Not sure where you get your nonsense from.

Dirty F

The funny (or sad) thing is when i invited a few people to promote my site nobody ever sent a hit. Because it looks different then they are used to.
With the right traffic it's one of the best in its niche.
Ah well, their lose. I'll keep the signups myself, np.

mineistaken

My ratios for most sponsors worsened 3-5 times since 2006. Did you do 3-5 times better in terms of rations in 2006?

Dirty F

This site is 5 years old i think. Ratios pretty much stayed the same.

With the rebills included i average about 65 dollars per member.

dgraves

I'm averaging between 8-10K/day. Google AdWords gave me a nice boost.

__________________
Gloryhole Swallow | Cumpsters | Spy Tug | Cum Clinic | Chica's Place

mineistaken

I also have 5 year old sites and ratios worsened 3-5 times. Your ratios stayed the same. While all people claim their ratios are not as good as 5 years ago you claim your ratios are the same. This is one lucky exception to the rule..

dgraves

Not to get off topic but this subjects pisses me off. I wouldn't have said anything but I just got contacted by yet another thief asking me when a certain girl will be up on Gloryhole Swallow. He says he loves all her videos but has never been a member.

These assholes are so far into theft that they don't see anything wrong with contacted the producer to ask when they are dishing up the next load of free porn.

Ok, rant over and back on topic. I can only imagine what my ratios would be without all the theft.

__________________
Gloryhole Swallow | Cumpsters | Spy Tug | Cum Clinic | Chica's Place

Dirty F

Has nothing to do with luck.

Kenny B!

Hitting you up, we need to talk!

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mineistaken

It has, because LESS percentage of people coming to your site buy memberships now than 5 years ago. That is a FACT.

Unless you improved your site or quality of visitors. But that would not be the point, in that case that means if you did those improvements 5 years ago your ratio would have been better 5 years ago as well.

SmutHammer

How do you get to this info?

dgraves

This is just a wild guess but "Sales Per Click" report?

__________________
Gloryhole Swallow | Cumpsters | Spy Tug | Cum Clinic | Chica's Place

SmutHammer

Yeah I overlooked it at first, Weird thing is that it's not giving correct specs and my screen shows a lot more info than his is showing. says over all is around 1/200 but the sales for the month etc. are not correct, So I'm going to guess that number is wrong too.

Far-L

Yeah, I wasn't really looking for another endorsement of how great things were for you back then. I don't think that is lost on anyone at this point. ;-)

What I am saying is:

1. You must have posted a ton of FREE porn to be making that much on TGP. You must also remember that those sites started to REQUIRE money shots etc. if you even wanted your gallery to post and webmasters complained then the same way they do now that is would "kill" the industry. So, either you played a 7 figure a year part in helping kill the industry then or you didn't, can't be both. Oh... hold on... the industry didn't "die" then either did it?

2. My hunch is people jerked off to your galleries and they either bought a membership or didn't but I bet only rarely does one really stop mid-masturbation to suddenly buy a membership... and if he did then he would probably still do the same thing watching a tube clip. People bought because they saw what they liked and wanted more without the problems of surfing the free stuff, and/or they wanted to get the "VIP" treatment that would go with buying a membership. That is what data said to us any way.

3. If you are such an expert from your tgp days of determining surfer behaviors then I would figure that staying competitive today would be less daunting. That is just my opinion though.

4. The people that aren't around are not around for one of two reasons. Either they lived like rock stars and lost track of actually working to make money and lost out, burned and ran, or did drugs until they couldn't see straight enough to post a gallery or they were so successful that they went on to bigger and better things.

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gabe100

At this point, I'd like to reflect on one prominent name that pops up when i think of TGPs and making a fortune.

quiet, rest in peace.

OK carry on. Robbie, Far-L delivered a stinging blow and we'd like to hear your view.

stever

not sure if you remember but most galleries had chopped up video segments of like 3-4 parts and rarely ever over 20-30secs or even 60secs

if you ask me that is annoying as fuck to rub one out to

not at all even close as to how it is today with one click you can see a full video

__________________


Brutal Bucks has extreme sites that convert!

Robbie

We were AL4A and Ampland

I not only put up galleries, but I did a million little things to entertain surfers...lots of humor, etc. on Ampland.

The galleries I put up came straight from the content producers. I didn't personally put up ANY free porn. I didn't own a paysite at that time.
Nope, I put up links to the hosted galleries that the paysite owners gave me to post up.

They made the choice of how much and what they wanted to show. I NEVER asked them for money shots or anything else. My tgp's were categorized. So I had a cumshot page for paysite owners who chose to put in cumshots. I also had a "babe" page for softcore. And a page for most niches.

Far-L hasn't delivered a "stinging blow" to me. He's theorizing from the paysite owner side of what he thinks went on with my business between 1996 and 2006.
He's wrong.

We made great sales and a lot of money for a lot of people in this business. And as was said by stever, the hosted galleries contained mostly pics...but the video ones that came out in later years (early 2000's) only had maybe four 10 second clips on them.

And again...those were all chosen and put out by the content owners. Not full scenes stolen and put out without their consent.

Comparing the millions of dollars we made with our partners (paysites) every year to the theft and devaluation of paysites that is caused by piracy is one of the most ignorant arguments that can ever be made.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Dirty F

Ok thanks for explaining my business to me. Idiot.

Your facts are wrong and you should stfu about things you don't know about.

stever

nice stats but most nats stats do not count type in hits
only type in sales

so this number is often misleading unless you are tracking type in hits some other way in there?

__________________


Brutal Bucks has extreme sites that convert!

mineistaken

I was trying to be polite, but ok - I can straight up tell you that you are lying. Conversions are not the same as they were 5 years ago (given that you did not improve site, did not improve traffic sources etc etc of course). You claim otherwise and you are lying.
Unless your site is so special that these people can not rub it out elsewhere to same or similar content. Or you have magic join links.

Far-L

Would you agree that people did jerk off to those clips? Apparently so because you already just admitted that you did. So you are saying that you finished up and instead of having a smile from jerking off and going on with your business like every other time you jerked off you were like "fucking can't believe I just fucking jerked off to some shitty 20 second clip".

No, trust me, you weren't. Just like I don't look back on the bra ads in the Sears Catalog with anything but fondness.

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Dirty F

You're so fucking clueless.

I suggest you stfu because you sound like a fucking clown.

And no, i'm not polite to people who call me a liar.

SGS

Been like this for a while now. They are the *norm* when it comes to surfers in 2012.

__________________
See sig...

stever

my point was most people need and want more than a few cut up 20sec teaser clips to jerk off

and they want to watch stuff they like conviniently so they were more forced to buy since tgps were not as convinient as tubes are today, some tubes today are even more convinient than paysites for surfers and this plays into the equation greatly

__________________


Brutal Bucks has extreme sites that convert!

Far-L

Thanks, I knew you weren't going to take it personally.

Ok... if you are trying to tell me that content wasn't pirated then apparently you forgot about a few major programs of that period that were FOUNDED on 100% stolen content. Let's C if I can remember - C, I remember that most of them began with a C but maybe you remember... in fact... I think you might be still promoting some of them just like the good ol' ampland/al4a days. Talk to some of the folks from Matrix, IGallery, etc. I know people that have formed profitable business models just going after content that was infringed then.

Jerking off is jerking off. People will do it to a picture of a frigging tree with a knot shaped like a pussy if they have to deal with a moment of unrelenting horniness, pure and simple. Tastes change perhaps but the appetite remains the same and another thing remains the same... people will always pay for a perceived value incentive especially if it is a matter of personal luxury. A bottle of water, a cable package subscription, a gym, a porn site, all of them can charge despite there being plenty of FREE alternatives available.

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VenusBlogger

I can easily convert paysites at 1:100 to 1:200...

I know how to convert them, and exactly what it takes to make it work.

My only problem is that I can't have my own paysites... Im in the process of finding a way to get a processor... but ccbill only allows some countries... I have content, design, host, everything.. just need to find a Western Europe or USA address to process with ccbill...

BTW, I usually see paysite owners could do a lot more to convert, they have everything, content, ccbill, design... but they have no idea how much else they could do to convert..

Give me a FETISH paysite and I'm confident I could drive double the signups they have now.. Of course I must be part of it.. and not a simple affiliate.

Periodo.

Far-L

Why are you limiting yourself to ccbill?

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Robbie

What I saw in real life was that people who jerked off to a 10 second video clip (that was generally 250pixels wide (tiny) and super shitty quality) back when TGP's ruled the world....were either teenage boys or people without credit cards.

But you should know that already from owning a site and seeing what your sales are and where they come from and how people react to different marketing.

There is a huge difference between you picking and choosing what content and how much of it will be used for marketing (and making those decisions based on stats in front of you along with feedback from your surfers) VS having your members area pirated and posted up on tubes and bit torrent sites while you hope somebody will type in your watermark (that is when your watermark is still on it).

I don't consider "hope" much of a business model personally.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

I agree with that 100%

My point that you originally jumped on was that I, as an affiliate, can no longer make "impulse buy" sales in the current climate to other sites.

I work hard on claudiamarie.com to make sure it does have that value for it's members. Part of that is by doing everything I can to keep the piracy of the site down to a minimum roar. The other part is just creating videos and pictures and scenarios that I feel absolutely NAIL what big tit fans want to see. My instincts (as always) have been right on the money.

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

mineistaken

Not that it matters but to be clear: at first you were impolite and only then I called you a liar, not the other way around.

And yes I am clueless. You are 1 miracle case that is having same ratios as you had 5 years ago.

ShowMe69

Not quite at that ratio but pretty close, just need more affiliates with traffic

__________________
Cuckold, Interracial or Swinger Traffic, Make Money $$
1:285 Conversion Ratio
CuckoldLand Affiliate Program

VenusBlogger

Good question, I think because CCBILL has the best affiliate program, so I can let others promote my unique perfect converting site too...

I also asked EPOCH, they could set me up, but I need to register a UK Limited company that gives me an address in UK to join EPOCH, however to use their affiliate program, I will need to get NATS and set all up..

Far-L

First, how on Earth is a kid that can't buy porn in 1997 different than one that can't buy porn in 2012? They still are all going to go looking for free, free, free... and when they get old enough to afford the luxury of higher quality for a price, then I assure you - we live in a material world after all - and they will be educated by this society and culture to buy, buy, buy and quality is worth paying a price for.

There are ways to prevent member areas from being pirated. There are ways to go after pirates. Just like existed ten years ago.

I see you making broad claims about surfer behavior, types of buyers, etc., but I can honestly say, from personal experience of "the good ol' days", that a lot of those assertions about non-buyers were pure conjecture back then and not actually based on anything but supposition, not real data. Unless you can show me proof, I think some of the things you are claiming are urban myth.

Prime example, we have free content on tubes as you know, full channels even, but why does our Google type in traffic still convert just like the good ol' days? Why is our retention still amazing - just like you pointed out about Claudia too?

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Far-L

I disagree about them having the best affiliate program. It is the one that a lot of people use, I will give you that, but I have seen enough complaints about them over the years to know that many people think CCbill is not up to par with other options currently available.

You are simply going to be paying higher rates and making less money because of it imho. Good luck though with whatever you choose but my advice is don't follow the herd or you run the risk of running off the cliff when lightning strikes and everyone stampedes one way or another.

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Struggle4Bucks

You don`t need nats to use epoch`s affiliateprogram

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Half troll half amazing!

VenusBlogger

Is VENDO better than ccbill, epoch and zombaio?

Robbie

First...the teenage boys are still the same, BUT they aren't being taught to buy porn. They are being taught that it is now ALL free. If you don't understand that, then you need to come down out of that mansion up on the hill and mingle with some common folk.

Second...I don't make "broad claims", I make money off of my experience and knowledge of how to entertain people.
What I did with a TGP was give them some good entertainment...but always had them standing just outside the velvet rope wondering what was actually inside that members area. It's different now with full members areas now given away.

I really have no idea why you are trying to argue with me. If you honestly believe that everything is great in our business, then more power to you.

I now run a tube site (like everybody else) for my affiliate work. . I've only sent a couple thousand hits all year to HomeGrown so I have zero sales this year with you.
But I'd love to try to send some traffic (what little I have left) and see for myself if your sites can be profitable for an affiliate or not.

I'll put up some of your promo clips and see if anything happens. I'd be a very happy camper if it makes sales and you'll find me on here singing your praises (though in all honesty, I already have much more respect for you than you apparently do for me)

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Far-L

No need to get defensive. I just know you have a different opinion and I am trying to get a conversation going that people can see both sides. I am definitely not trying to prove you WRONG. I just know we have different experience and both of us have opinions based on realities that are similar but not the same.

I may not agree with you but I don't doubt your veracity which is why the discussion could be useful for others here.

I will be happy to take a look and see if we can recommend anything on your traffic. Many thanks btw for the support but let me show you what we can do otherwise we have just wasted your time and traffic.

What is your tube?

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Axel_Crak

Hey guys, this topic is very interesting for me because i love to analyse and discuss numbers

Btw I encourage everyone with traffic to try the links and propositions made in this topic and see how it convert for you... every traffic will react differently, so good luck to find your best matches !!!

For those who dont know me, I am the chief Analytics officer at Crakmedia, and i analyse all our media buy and natural traffic wich represent over 10 billions of ads impression per month and more than 10 millions of hits per day on our LP, and this on few hundreds different monthly sources.

So I dont want to ruin the party here, and i dont want to say that people are misguiding on purpose , im interested to discuss numbers and i think we need to add some precisions about ratios and the info here, and warn some affiliates that does media buy before they jump too fast.

Thrust me I know we can make what we want with numbers , you can make them look very good or very bad depending on what are you focusing in.

A 1:500 ratio is possible yes, a 1:100 ratio too, I even i have also some PPL affiliates with 1:2 ratio


So ya everything is possible BUT and its a huge BUT , normally you need various parameters to achieve that, and it willl not be done on a classic media buy (ill explain further) Im very interested to knows what kind of traffic is use to make all theses amazing under 1: 500 ratios !!

For me a Good ratio (1 : 500) could be done most of the times only if you have some of theses conditions

• Contextual/targeted ads,
• On a specific and good geo/country (only T1 )
• From natural/SEO traffic
• From member zone area
• From a high quality source
• From High CPC/CPM campaign
• With a small volume
• With some daily cap
• With Type In traffic
• From a blog, or site that have returning members that will follow what the owner will post
• On certain hours/days
• From a niches that fit the source well
• With some retargetting
• On some device like ipad, or mobile
• On redirection , with 1 or 2 click to pay on a phone bill

Etc etc Etc

I dont think you can easily do 1 : 500 on a classic media buy, what i meant by that will be this:

• - Lets say you buy some traffic on the most popular ad net network (TJ, EXO, ERO, JUICY etc)
• - You buy traffic from a popular general tube site (like PHub, Xham, RedT, Yjizz)
• - You buy a big % of a flat spot deal, non contextual,for 30 consecutive days
• - You buy the most common spot a 300 x 250 next to video player A/B
• - The traffic is regular WEB
• - The traffic has all geos with a normal breakdown, and lets says around 33% For every tier 1-2-3
• - The spot has decent volume, lets say cost 10 000$ at a .16$ CPM (2m imp./day)
• - You have a decent banners rotation with a CTR around .05%-1% for 10-20k / Clicks per day

About the sign up ratio, so lets go this way :

• A 1 : 500 ratio
• Made from A PPS of 30$
• With regular uniques hits count from a LP
• With 100% of the spot traffic
• For 30 consecutive days
• With ALL those previous parameters ,

Well, if someone pretend he can fill all those conditions which are the "classic media buy", hum i will be VERY interested to test it !!

I dont say its impossible at all, because on some occasion it happens to us, but in general and over 300 hundreds of the best industry brands we tested ( on few hundred of different sources) a 1 : 500 ratios is EXCEPTIONAL (again on non geo/contextual regular tube spot traffic)

And if you really do, well its a great news, CONTACT ME !!!
Because We can make you few thousands of signs up per day

__________________

Penny24Seven

I don't even know who to reply to. I agree with quite a few people and post and some I wish I knew where they got their info.
Franck gotta love it when people will not promote your site unless you make it look like all the others they are use to seeing lol.
AC has a nice post and VB have you not tried just working with someone that already has what you need. Cutting out all the cost and time and starting up right away? Show them what you can do and take a %

__________________
Our site is coming soon. It will be one of the best ever! I know so. Brian and Penny

Far-L

I keep telling you guys we need to talk.

You may have tested everyone else but you didn't test us.

Thanks for adding to the discussion btw. With oversight of that much traffic tested on that many sites I think you pretty much carry the conch at will on this subject.

The success of traffic from banners on tubes depends hugely on the zone as well of course too but I know you already know that.

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Kelli58

Even the big boys are suffering when it comes to conversion ratios. This economy has hurt all companies no matter how big or small.

I have very targeted porn star traffic that 80% on average comes from search engines. My sales ratios at Vivid Cash have been as low as 1:18 and average less than 1:150 for years. Today I noticed my sales are converting at 1:998!

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rastan

Yep- had the same sort of thing for the last week.
My http://splatbukkake.com has been consistently under 1:500 with my own targeted promo network, but this last weeks been wll over that.

__________________
Rob | Britsexcash.com | @splatbukkake | Skype: BritSexCash

zuffa

As a hobbyist, I only promote a few models and programs. I also have limited & targeted online traffic. MisterPeabody, I obviously don't own these programs but I do like to support people & companies that work hard. Here is my very short list of 1: 500 or better.

1. Claudia Marie : Great content. It's fun, kinky and quality. Somehow, even with the quality they still convey that they are "amateur". Customers believe they can connect with Claudia. I have been watching these guys for a while now & they are some of the hardest working people in the business. I.e. they care about their product & it shows.


2. Naughty America ( My Friends Hot Mom, Seduced by a Cougar ) : Naughty America just knows how to capture the fantasies many had in high school / college. Science will tell you that those fantasies, because of "teen" hormones become imprinted differently. Later, these memories / fantasies can be triggered by sight, smell, sounds, colors etc. Whether by design or luck, NA portrays these adolescent fantasies perfectly and then triggers them through their content & trailers.


3. Tonights Girlfriend: The content simply captures the fantasy perfectly. If I were to have a PSE, I would want it to look like / go down like what I see on Tonight's Girlfriend.


4. Kelly Madison: Howard Stern once stated that he "discovered that lesbians equaled ratings" I would propose that threesomes do too. What married guy wouldn't envy Kelly's husband? Their content is absolutely professional however you still know that this is a real married couple. If I were going to try and talk my significant other into a threesome, I might use PornFidelity as a motivator.


5. Brandi Love: Brandi is quite simply one of the most intriguing people I have ever met. Her content is truly amateur the concept behind the site is not. Sometimes, entertainers whether they are in adult or "mainstream" have "It Factor". Brandi has "it", she works her ass off, is smart and is extremely approachable. Met Brandi in Las Vegas a couple weeks ago, she actually let me see her stats inside Epoch, run reports etc. She has pitifully low traffic volumes but conversions from her top 20 affiliates were all better than 1: 300.

sojproductions

All of our sites convert at around 1:5-600, but www.paigeturnah.com is around 1:150-200, with solo pornstar big butt it converts even better. Give her a try!

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billywatson

All my sites at Fabulous Cash convert below 1:500.

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Zeiss

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Roald

This is basically the only thing that matters imo

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