The Porn Nerd

Has anyone else noticed that 3rd party processers (CCBill, Epoch, etc) have turned up their scrub to insane proportions recently?

Later this year Visa is changing its' acceptable chargeback ratios, from the previous 1.0% to the new 0.9%. So by reducing the CB levels by a measly 1/10 of 1% the processers FREAK OUT and crank up the scrub? This change is months away yet the Billers must be preparing for the coming shitstorm (?) by clamping down on sales.

Fucked up, yes? So we can expect an entire summer (and beyond) of this tight scrub situation? Thanks Visa (and 3rd party processers)! Maybe in 2020 sales levels will return once everyone calms the fuck down.

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jigga

Well I guess that explains the shitshow that was April sales...

The Porn Nerd

Yup pretty much.

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12clicks

or, once your balls drop, you can become a man and leave 3rd party billing

Bladewire

Did you get rate increases passed down from Visa on your merchant account? Increased Visa international fee, Visa APF Credit & Visa APF Debit fees?

12clicks

look how cute! you imagine you know what I'm talking about.

Bladewire

So you did get a fee increase. I think it's funny here nobody's talking about their fees getting increased. There's nothing we can really do I guess.

12clicks

I'm unaware of any increases. they're generally passed down to the bottom.

ZENRA

I've noticed no difference in Epoch/CCBill signup rates recently. I don't know why people talk about "turning up the scrub" as if it is a real thing. You get emails for declines and the reasons are there with most being ones being bank declines ('do not honor', 'NSF', etc.) variant and those are issued by the card issuer, not the billing gateway.

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JesseQuinn

that's what I've found, no discernible diff in successful client payments. and all declines were on the bank end, not my gateway except for one credit-card thieving scumbag mofo who got blocked by my personal fraud barricade for the millionth time (he needs to either die in a fire or get a productive hobby, don't care which). I use a merch account though, not ccbill or Epoch so not sure how applicable that is to PN

I have noticed that sometimes client banks tighten their scrubs though, like multiple clients who have never had trouble paying over years suddenly get an 05 DNH over the course of a few days. I haven't noticed that with the recent change in visa ToS but have def seen it a few times in the past. talking maybe three times in 5 years so not very usual, but more noticeable for that.

did notice a significant dip around Easter which surprised me, far as I knew it wasn't a big holiday to most xians other than the easter bunny stuff. but yeah, wow those were three and a half days of REALLY low sales. never seen it in previous years, it was really odd. by Monday afternoon sales were back to normal.

so yeah, April down slightly overall due to that but def not caused by a spike in declines

@PN, can you talk to Epoch or ccbill if this is a persistent issue? never used them but would assume it's in both of your interest to get issues solved. good luck in resolving this.

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The Porn Nerd

Well it's the eternal question, isn't it? Is it the merchant banks, the processers, Visa itself, or just a strange anomaly? Sales do return eventually but when you experience days like you yourself mentioned it IS bizarre. And when you get emails from Epoch warning us about these new Visa CB levels coming it does make one wonder.

Normally I let these dips in sales pass without mention but, like you, this April I saw unusually low activity. Then this weekend (especially Sunday) was deadly, thus this thread.

And for those that say a scrub does not exist they do not know how cc processing works. You CAN increase the fraud barricade, check for exact and correct input fields, etc. Or you can let any moron through, chargebacks be damned! There IS a sliding scale when it comes to fraud protection. So it would make sense, from a processer's perspective, to tighten things up a bit until these new regs go into effect later this year.

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JesseQuinn

you're exactly correct, there are three parties involved in letting through a transaction. your own barricade, the processor and the client bank

as someone with no middle processor I honestly for April saw no meaningful increase in declines. just lower sales over Easter. 3 1/2 days, that was it. and no spike in declines, just lower sales. Jesus died to prevent people from getting paid for porn.

all I'm offering here is my own personal anecdotal experience of April, am not in any way discounting your own experience or the validity of your issue

for real you need to speak to Epoch and ccbill about this if the issue persists. if you can't you need a new processor who will listen to your feedback and offer solutions if any, or at least explain why they are cracking down even if it is a 'for your ears/eyes only/off the record' type of message

I hope that makes sense. props to you for staying on top of a noticeable change for you. for me it was just Easter, before and after that was normal and has been through May thus far.

if I were you I would make the processors my first step in trying to fix this. for example getting them to whyte-list your recurring subs

getting angry won't get you paid. focus on solutions. breathe deep, contact your partners at ccb and E and work towards solving it

again, sincere good luck

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The Porn Nerd

Thanks Jesse! The real issue isn't an odd off day or three, it's the slight clamping down overall. It's subtle but it's there. And it makes really off days like the ones you described more possible.

This increase in scrub may get worse as we get closer to the new regulations going into effect later this year. April-May is always the worst time of year anyway (Easter, taxes, sporting events, Spring Break) so it will be interesting (frustrating?) seeing how the rest of the year unfolds.

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JesseQuinn

life is a mystery

-Madonna

=)

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thickcash_amo

I noticed it too. From April 18 through Easter I saw a 50% increase in declines (Segpay, EPoch). It got so bad I actually contacted Segpay (which is Very rare). Whether the "scrub" is a real thing or not I dont know but the timing of the new visa regs make me think otherwise. Back to normal though

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The Porn Nerd

Well the timing of things makes it hard to figure out exactly what is going on. I am not accusing processers of purposely fucking with sales (why would anyone do that?) just noticing the recent anomalies.

But after digging deeper with Epoch and CCBill it seems that the majority of the denials are coming on the bank side of things, not with the processors. As mentioned before, there are various stages a transaction has to go through before it gets approved so if things are bottlenecking on the bank side of things there's not much anyone can do about it but wait it out.

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Rand

The concept of a "scrub" is a lot more complex and sophisticated than most give it credit for. I will agree it's dynamic and evolves, but in a way that favors increased sales unless your account is in danger of facing a fine program. The level of granularity employed is something you could not reproduce just anywhere.

For those who believe in that sledgehammer theory of mass scrubbing, well, I can't speak for everyone but that's just not how we operate.

Lots of factors can affect sales. Most have nothing to do with your bank, your processor, or the card associations. Fluctuations, explainable or not, are just part of it. After nearly 22 years in this, that's the one absolute truth I can share with you.


.

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Payment Industry - Communications - Quality Assurance

The Porn Nerd

I agree there are many factors when it comes to sales and it's not always easy to pinpoint exactly what is going on or where the exact issue is. But also let's not totally ignore the fact that Visa IS changing it's CB levels later this year and that will affect how some companies (banks, processers, affiliate programs, etc) will do business in the short term.

I run paysites, which have their own CB issues and concerns. But let's not forget cams, dick pills, dating, etc - all lucrative revenue streams in Adult where even a 0.1% decrease in CB levels could translate into thousands of dollars or more.

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ZENRA

One thing to take into account when you're experiencing slumps in signups is that sometimes the fish just don't bite. Your sites may be firing on all cylinders, traffic and analytics are all normal, content is good, but new users may just be lower. Obviously if this goes on for more than a few days, it's best to start examining the issue from various angles to see what can be done, but otherwise, just keep on working on your projects.

If you are getting increased declines, you may want to look into the issue and take note of the reasons why, but if they're all bank/card issuer related, there isn't much you nor your billing providers can do. Though one suggestion I have is to email (manually or automatically if possible) anyone who does get a decline of any sort to explain why they got it and what actions can be done to amend it (use a different card, ensure card has money in it, etc.).

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