Paul Markham

Got to jump in after all you cowards, what happened to the home of the brave?, keep going on about porn being worried about a Republican President. Over the last 8 years there has been an increase in porn available, less restrictions on who can watch it and probably more people working in porn. And all in the US.

So what if they stick a few idiots like Paul Little in jail. He knew the risks and took them, for the money and the chance to abuse women. He threw the dice and lost. And if you cowards think they're coming after main stream porn you need to grow a back bone. And yes I DO KNOW what it's like to live and work in a country that is anti porn and get my door kicked in by the police, many times. Still did not take my balls away.

As for who wins. I truly do not care because I do not think either have the will, perception or power to change the trouble the US, and therefore the rest of us,are in. The change that is needed is too big for them to handle. The West, and not just the US, needs to stop sucking in billions of dollars/Euros worth of goods from countries who don't buy the same back. An economy based on Malls, debt and a "service industry" does not work as easily as they told us. Proof is all around you.

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V_RocKs

Actually, Obama said in the commercial that he would have to go through the budget line for line and make many cuts in order to get the country back on track. He also stated that his cut would be for big industry and for people that actually don't need money and just paid someone to get the money into the national budget.

crockett

I guess you missed the entire 2257 thing and the fact that if Alberto Gonzales would have remained the Attorney General, his top priority for the FBI was to fight porn. I assume you missed those little tidbits from the last 8 years of Bush..

Had those two things not gone in our favor, meaning Gonzales got thrown out on his ass and 2257 getting set back in the courts. Well things would be a hell of a lot different right now. However it seems you missed that.

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bhutocracy

Jesus H Christ you are a dumb fuck Paul. One day you might even realise it when you're not too busy making threads to spam your content. The post you are replying to is *NOT* about having a Republican administration.

stickyfingerz

Uno while you know I would rather you voted McCain Im not going to fault you for making your own decision after weighing the issues that are important to me. As people who actually know me know, I would never not do biz, or not be someones friend due to their political leanings. The biggest idiots on this board during this election are those that have stated that they would not do biz with person X because they are voting for candidate Y. Anyone who has said that over this election have lost most of my respect. Everyone has their own life experiences, own sequence of events that have led to their decision to vote for whoever they choose.

The ones that get so over the top about politics that they have to try to damage another persons voting preference are simply idiots in my book. Of course I guess it makes me a bit hypocritical to fault them for that decision..... damn pandora's box..

topnotch, standup guy

Exactly right!

Markham and Hallbucks are beyond all hope, of course, but I would be interested in reading direct rebuttals to the above from some of the more intelligent GFY republicans.

Any takers?

gfm777

And what about John Stagliano? Is he an idiot too? And what do you mean that we should just grow a backbone? What, we should just go ahead and vote Republican and let them try to destroy us and we should just deal with it? Why the hell would we vote against our best interests?

kane

As the others mentioned there were the 2257 things and some other stuff but you are forgetting a major thing. A little thing we like to call 9/11. It is pretty well known now that Bush and then AG Ashcroft were putting together a anti-porn task force with the FBI. When the 9/11 attacks hit they had to take that money and those people and put them towards fighting terrorism (where they should have been all along). So in reality we don't really know exactly what he would have done had there not been any 9/11 attacks.

Also there was the situation where he fired several US attorneys because they didn't want to go after obscenity and instead wanted to focus on other things.

Sure porn got more mainstream over the last 8 years, but I think there were some big outside factors so there is no telling what could have happened. There have been more prosecutions in the last few years now that terrorism seems to be back on the back burner again, had 9/11 never happened things could have gotten pretty ugly.

Paul Markham

But back to the main theme of this thread. IMO Neither candidate is going to stop Americans spending money they have not really earned. You can only borrow for so long. Borrowing needs to slow down and production in the US of goods it can sell over seas needs to be improved. Today giving tax cuts sends too many people to shop for goods made outside the US. Money needs to be better invested than this.

As for the "What if" posts on porn. I would rather focus on what did happen. As for restrictions on porn. I would love them. The problem is we need a Government who will sit down with us and talk about how we keep more extreme porn off the Net and more porn out of the reach of children. But we would rather talk on a board.

We need more restrictions that are effective. None will be 100%, but I would go for 50%.

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kane

Here is the problem with that. Once the ball starts to roll, it is very difficult to make is stop. So say somehow we come up with a group that will act as spokespersons for this industry and they negotiate a deal to get some extreme stuff taken off the net. You have now started the ball down the hill. First off much of the extreme stuff is put up by companies/people from outside the US so they wouldn't have to take it down and those within the US that are putting up that type of stuff and making some nice money from it may very well leave the country and set up shop outside. So realistically they are not going to get that much taken down. So that would mean they would have to put some kind of filtering system in place.

So where do we draw the line? Is double penetration too hardcore? For some maybe, but for others no. Is deepthroating too much? Who is going to decide this. Then what if they change their mind down the road and as part of a law that gets passed there is a provision to now add certain things to the filter list. So maybe at first group sex is okay, but then along comes a new law and they decide group sex is not okay so they start filtering for it. The ball is rolling, all they have to do is add something onto it with little trouble. Then someone would have to challenge the law and fight it. Don't think it could happen? Look at 2257. The law has been in place forever and there were few if any inspections until recently. That didn't stop them from altering the law . . . twice. They didn't even know if the existing law was working, instead they just changed it.

I think agreeing to let things be banned is a terrible idea. The government has a history of being given a inch then taking a foot.

It's not a bad idea to talk to the government about issues like 2257 and making filters available to those who want them. Hell I would even be for some kind of meta tag you could put in your site that allowed a filter to recognize and block it without issue so anyone who chose to use a filter would be guaranteed to not find your site. But to just sit down and decide what content is okay and what is not is a horrible idea. The government should have no say in what I look at in my own home and by agreeing to allow certain things to be blocked or criminalized it would mean a small group of people had just decided for everyone in the country what they can look at online and that is wrong.

On the non porn issues though I do agree that unless there are major spending cuts and more fiscal responsibility all the tax cuts and economic stimulus packages in the world will not help over the long term.

Paul Markham

There is only one way out of this financial crisis. The West has to start producing goods it can sell to the East so the balance of payments are maintained. The idea that we in the West can suck in cheap goods and pay for them on credit will not keep working.

But to kick start the economies you are right but probably too limited. Everyone has to make "major spending cuts and more fiscal responsibility" not just Governments. People need to spend what they earn more than what they can borrow. It's called a "credit crunch" because credit is the problem from the top to the bottom.

As for tax cuts I'm not so sure. If you give 10 million people $10 a week in tax cuts they will rush to the malls to buy another product produced elsewhere. If you give 1 million people $100 a week they might think about a new car, holiday or extension on the home. The first two will send money out of the US.

If you spend $100 million dollars a week building roads, schools or hospitals you improve the lives of more people. It employs people, buys goods from local suppliers and leaves the country with something more solid than a new T Shirt made in China.

Roosevelt got the US out of the Depression with the New Deal. It worked then and it will work now. If the people working it do it right. Who is the better person to make a New Deal for the US, Obama or McCain and does the US and the West have the balls to make it work or would they be happier with a small tax cut so they can buy more goods from China?

And yes with a New Deal some of the money will flow out of the West, it's just that less will flow out. Bush has let too much flow out and unless McCain stops the flow it will never get better.

As for censoring the Internet and porn. It's a sticky problem and yes Governments change their tack, especially in the US. The problem is applying it to other countries and making sure the playing field is level. Maybe talking to Visa would work as well a site losing their ability to process Visa would have an immediate effect. Maybe blocking domains with unacceptable porn outside members areas. Maybe there are other solutions.

But the Internet is something that could be producing Billions if not Trillions for the West. If only people could make it work as a place to do honest business. And not a place where everything is free or supported by advertising.

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StuartD

That's usually best after being owned so badly.

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uno

It's also where I usually prefer my threads to remain.

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kane

I agree strongly with you about the US needing to produce something it sells to other countries. This country, and the middle class of this country, were built on manufacturing. We built things and sold them. We sold them to the people of this country, but we also exported them and infused our economy with that fresh cash from other countries. That is changing now. Now we have a company that buys parts from one overseas company and ships them to another that assembles them then they sell those things to the people of the US. More and more of us are making our living selling things to each other that are brought in from other countries and not building new things to sell elsewhere and with every sale it is money leaving this country.

That said, it will be tough to change. I saw the other day that nearly 80% of the strength of the US economy is based on consumer spending. That means when people stop buying stuff they don't need it causes major troubles. We are seeing that now. There is financial trouble so people are cutting back on spending and it is making the trouble worse. We are in a position where the economy needs people to spend to keep it going, but also needs them to stop so we can move in a different direction. We need a leadership that is not afraid to tell the people that they are not entitled to anything and everything they desire and that spending more than they bring is a bad thing. That is not going to happen anytime soon. We are a nation where so many people feel like if they want it, they have it. A great example is this woman I know (she is my brother's mother in law). She likes horses. So she owns 9 of them. She doesn't breed them and she doesn't sell them, she rides them and keeps them as pets and they cost her around $2000 a month. She only makes about $1600 a month at her part time job so she spends every cent she makes and $400 of what her husband makes on those horses. Her husband is a freelance trucker. They have no 401K or retirement because she is wasting 24K on horses that get ridden once or twice a year and she will not get rid of them. She has said she would be homeless before she got rid of them. It is idiocy, but that is who she is and she isn't changing any time soon. I happen to think if she really were to have to choose between them and homelessness she would sell them, but for now she is happily wasting their retirement on them.

It will be hard to change that type of thinking and it will be hard to find a product that we can sell at a profit overseas while employing American workers to make it.

I think the first thing we need to do is cut our dependence on foreign energy. Once we stop sending 700+ billion a year overseas and keep it here in the US that will be a big help. Plus creating that energy will create a lot of good jobs for people. The second step is to really curb spending on the government level. They need to really cut the amount of money they spend on just about everything. They need to operate smarter and demand better results for their money. Third we need to sit every American down and teach them about budgeting and money managment so that we can move forward and not have a country where just about everyone is up to their eyes in debt. If we curb spending all around, manage money better and further streamline our government they won't require as much money and they can cut taxes and put more money into the hands of the people.

It won't be easy and I don't know that either Obama or McCain are the guy to do it, but then again I don't know who is the guy. It is a very complex problem and if it is not handled it could really continue to cause us trouble for a long time to come.

EmpireAutopilot

Nope, you're just too stupid to understand anything. You have the brain of a 12 year old as does a large swath of the country.

Paul Markham

Good post Kane.

The problem is the voters don't see it. Plumber Joe is a fool and he thinks $10 a week in his pocket is better than everyone paying $10 more a week in tax so it's invested in getting the problem put right. It will take a long time and it has to include other countries. Whether we have the leaders and the voters to vote for them is something we will discover.

This I do know, the last thing you need is another Administration who thinks it's a quick fix. The West has been going down this route for 40 years and it will not be fixed in 40 months. Or even 4 years.

Government spending is not the culprit you make think. Yes it's bloated and yes it needs trimming. The Government is sucking in less imports than the citizens.

You're spot on about making things we can sell. But that will need Government spending on schools and manufacturing. Don't expect anyone else to do it.

As for energy, look at the billionaires created by the US buying in energy. The Russians and Arabs love you.

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Doctor Dre

The people that gave him money expected him to spend it.

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slapass

I also agree with the idea that we do not have two bad people running. I do not view either candidate as a bad choice. I will vote Obama with the only nervousness being that he is not very experienced. Bill Clinton did not have much on the national scene and he did great so who knows.

notoldschool

Your best post.

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MaDalton

funny, the only 2 countries that favor McCain are Albania and Macedonia, 2 countries that are mostly known for exporting criminals to the western world

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MovieMaster

People are not interested in factual data, but rather voting on feelings and emotions.

Its sad to say but the american public typically votes based on brands, marketing, and perception. It doesn't matter what the facts are or who is better...

Government is not the answer, free markets solve almost everything! I don't know of anything any form of government has solved or fixed or created that has influenced man kind. Its always some guy in a basement tinkering or a small or larger business coming up with something new that changes the world, cures it, and so on...

Government needs to run itself like a business and stop giving handouts for those who arn't doing shit! Would you keep paying an employee who doesn't produce? Fuck no!

enforce the laws on the books and a lot of the waste will be trimmed off!

That's not paying for undocumented or illegal education, health care, that is punishing businesses hiring illegals because thats the only way it will stop without laying a dam mine field on the mexican borders, enforcing expired visa stays, kicking people off welfare after so long... not rewarding mothers for every kid they have as a pay raise in benefits.

There needs to be a move for some tough love and at the same time making it easier to a certain extent to become a citizen of the states.

Education system needs to clamp down and stop passing kids who cant pass a real test, hell colleges are a joke... Might as well be highschool and how it suppose to be run.. U fail, not our problem! Take the class again and pass it till then shut the fuck up and go wait tables!

Yea, I'm a dick! but tired of people looking at the U.S as a dam place for handouts and govt to pay there bills and do everything for them.


Now if you think those rules are harsh go live in some other country and tell them your not a citizen and see if they will help you... Health care, not likely other than a band aid and a huge bill, finding a job good luck on that, welfare haha your fucking funny!


Theres my rant.... common sense says run the country like a business!

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WZRogeR

Sorry, but Obama rule

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Paul Markham

Sorry MovieMaster but if you can't see that it's the free market that got us into this mess you're a fool.

The big holes in your statement. It's largely free enterprise who suck in low paid illegal workers yet you ask the Government to stop it for you. If free market is the solution they would stop employing them. Or stop moving factories to places they can pay wages that are a lot less then the US. And deprive Americans of jobs.

It's Government not the free market that will improve education. The free market will move it's operation to India where there are the educated people who work for low wages and often work better than the US ones.

Your post is the typical me, me, me attitude of most Americans. If you want more jobs, better economy and a safer future you need to invest in your country and not yourself. I hate wasteful Government spending and have seen it first hand. But the Government is more likely to spend money at home than the free market. All that will do is cut your taxes, invest less in the future and send you down to the Mall to by goods made in the Third World.

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bloggingseo

The only reason I don't like conservatives in office is because they think it's okay to dictate what goes on in people's bedrooms and personal choices that should be left up to the individual like abortion rights or even birth control being mentioned in schools. If it were up to most of them, teenagers would never know that contraception were an option and preach abstinence only. They also want to say gay people shouldn't even be together and definitely shouldn't be married, which is annoying. I think gay people have a right to be just as miserable as straight married people! ANyway, it's stuff like that that makes me never want to vote republican. Go Obama!

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kane

Honestly that is the main reason I don't like them either. I can't stand the idea of someone telling me what I can read, watch listen to or do in my own home. The republicans spend too much time trying to govern morality in this country and that drives me insane.

kane

They also vote on morality. I read an article about the McCain campaign in Ohio where there were several conservatives interviewed and every one of them didn't think McCain would be a good president and thought Obama would be better for the economy, but they said as a Christian they couldn't bring themselves to vote for someone that is pro-choice so they were voting for McCain. So clearly, that is the only issue that really matters to them and that is pretty sad.


While I am for smaller government I think we now live in an age where some regulation is needed. Look at just about any third world country and what do you have? You have a very tiny number of people that are very wealthy and you have a huge number of dirt poor people. Free markets that have no restriction allow for businesses to use people and toss them out as trash and can cause problems. Sure there are things that free markets can solve and fix, but in some cases there is some governmental guidence that needs to be put in place. Should we just expect that every 8-10 years the banking system in this country will crumble to the ground and destroy millions of dollars in home values and retirement savings because the free market allowed for a small group to exercise extreme greed and destroy the system as they saw fit? I am all for free markets, I just think in this day and age there needs to be some oversight in some areas to make sure everyone is playing by the same rules.

Agreed. I think we need to put an end to anyone that is making welfare their career and encouraging illegals to come to this country by hiring them only to have them clog up our health care and educational systems.

Two interesting stories. In the city I live in the grade school no longer has graduations. They have what is called a "promotion of excellence." They fail nobody. My brothers son took 6 classes per term for a total of 18 classes his 8th grade year. He failed 15 of them and they let him go on to high school and they flat out told him that they would not hold him back unless the parents told them to. His wife will not hold him back so he moved on to high school. When I was in 8th grade in the 80's if you didn't pass your classes, you didn't graduate and had to come back. I think there were 10 or so kids my 8th grade year that were taking the year over again.

The second story is also from the city I live in. We have so many illegal and migrant workers that they now teach grades 1-4 in what they call "half and half." That means for half the day they teach in English and half the day they teach in Spanish. If you want you can request for you kid to be in an English only class, but if it fills up you are out of luck. So the kid is learning how to learn and has to also learn a new language. There was a measure on this years ballot that called for a law that would make it so that schools can only subject any student to the half and half classrooms for a total of 2 years, but it would create other classes that would "immerse" the Spanish speaking kids in English and teach them the language. So the tax payers are not only paying to educate these kids (most of whom are children of illegals and may be illegal themselves) but first they are teaching them English so that they can then teach them.

MovieMaster

Look I know your a european and come from that frame of government but it was governments idea of making homes available to everyone that got us into the problem.

The free market was forced to make business decisions that wouldn't otherwise be made without government setting up the domino's to start the fall. Look I don't say free market and greed had its role but where did this problem begin... Government trying to do something I think everyone could admire.... Make home ownership available to everyone but not in a logical sense way.



Free enterprise does solve issues that otherwise wouldn't be solved, however government essentially as a tool has the power to do nothing to benefit the free market, but has the ability to create great harm in the markets. Increase taxes, thus increase costs to business and businesses job is to find profit and a means to keep it going. If going overseas because of higher taxes how can you blame them... If government wanted to keep jobs here you would lower taxes and create huge tax incentives for businesses to stay here! People forget, all increase in taxes do is a full circle and hit everyone in the population. Tax the tax businesses, tax property, it just makes them increase prices and pass these taxes to the customers thus increasing inflation when the min wage is increased and the circle keeps on going.

Now your point on why would businesses stop employing low wage workers, you forgot the point I made about immigration... I have no issue with legal immigration, and I do acknowledge that immigration reform is needed but the main beef is with govt. enforcing its laws and doing what it should be doing! Protecting the integrity of the country / borders. People can't keep making excuses for not securing the border fix the holes, and deal with whats here after, not the other way around.

You mixed up my statement a little bit I never said free market would do education on a grand scale but I think most people would agree private schools create better students. If they didn't they wouldn't be in business! Harvard, Yale, USC, Johns Hopkins, etc... vs Community colleges... do jc's produce some good leaders sure... but if someone had a choice they would take the private schools anyday because of the sheer benefits it offers!

India is producing a fuck load of computer programmers, engineers, doctors from mostly private schools...

Look private education isn't for everyone.

My point with eduction was that they need to stop lowering standards and hold people accountable much like they should be held accountable for financial decisions they have made and become more responsible for their education. You have school districts and states lowering standards so kids can pass just to pass the buck (crap) when instead hold the fucker accountable till the kid gets it!



I agree we need to invest in our country, and that's great but investing in something without holding it accountable is pointless! If I the tax payer want better education I expect schools to hold the students accountable.


Your point is well made and I think maybe I didn't explain that or maybe lost in the read but I agree there has to be a balance but when there is so much gross waste in social programs for those who are not citizens, abuse the system, and etc for really the sheer lack of enforcing the rules on the books.

Its almost become taboo to enforce laws for being labeled as uncompassionate person.

I just wish people would stand up and know Americans are compassionate but don't confuse that with weakness and expect to fraud us!


I am very moderate in most social issues, its just the flat abuse and naivety to just go with the flow and not what is right. Helping people no problem, holding them accountable is where we are failing....

I am not one to buy into this whole idea of "Change"

What do we need to "Change" we are a great country, a prosperous country and I feel we have do alot of good.... and we have done some bad but which country hasn't in their history but I think the good out weighs the bad....

What I want is "Improvement" of our system and not drastic "Change!"

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MovieMaster

sorry for some typos that fucked up some grammer but kinda tipsy and feeling good, you get the gist of it!

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MovieMaster

And I don't think anyone wanted a bailout for these dam banks from either party but it was a catch 22, and damned if you do, and damned if you don't

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