Legal Help - GoFuckYourself.com

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:30 PM

Are chat conversation (via IM) used in court? Can they be consider evidence or not, since anyone can log on anyone's screen name?

mmcfadden · 12-30-2008, 11:31 PM

can u post the im message? and yes... it could certainly be used

After Shock Media · 12-30-2008, 11:32 PM

Sure why not.
Well may be harder to use in a criminal case but civil I see no issues and small claims would fall into a hell yes.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcfadden

can u post the im message? and yes... it could certainly be used

No.. actually it is over a couple months. I think. Not really sure. Anyway, could you argue the fact that it was not you?

And just so I don't get any questions. No, I am not talking about a friend or asking for a friend of a friend of a cousin of a sister of a mother. Yes I am talking about myself.

tony286 · 12-30-2008, 11:33 PM

Bump for a interesting question.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Sure why not.
Well may be harder to use in a criminal case but civil I see no issues and small claims would fall into a hell yes.

Well most likely it would be a criminal case.. Civil I'm not worried about. They are cheap people anyway so no matter what they will ask for money.

mmcfadden · 12-30-2008, 11:36 PM

if it's divorce... it will be into evidence like cookie dough in betty crocker

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcfadden

if it's divorce... it will be into evidence like cookie dough in betty crocker

Nope.. not a divorce.

Basically, someone does not like me. That someone got access to a computer of someone I talk to, and looked at the IM logs and found out they could get me in trouble.

If of course.. I sent it..

After Shock Media · 12-30-2008, 11:37 PM

Were you trying to sell something online you should not be selling.

96ukssob · 12-30-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x Shady x

Are chat conversation (via IM) used in court? Can they be consider evidence or not, since anyone can log on anyone's screen name?

Im pretty sure instant messages can NOT be used unless the other person admits to them. Since they can be faked, or someone else sign in under their name, etc.

but id ask an attorney

mmcfadden · 12-30-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x Shady x

No.. actually it is over a couple months. I think. Not really sure. Anyway, could you argue the fact that it was not you?

And just so I don't get any questions. No, I am not talking about a friend or asking for a friend of a friend of a cousin of a sister of a mother. Yes I am talking about myself.

Just saw this post... sounds like maybe some type of affair. Yes it can be used and the better attorney's always win. It doesn't matter when it get's to court who's wrong or right... it's always about the money

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Were you trying to sell something online you should not be selling.

Nope. Completely legal.

After Shock Media · 12-30-2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossku69

Im pretty sure instant messages can NOT be used unless the other person admits to them. Since they can be faked, or someone else sign in under their name, etc.

but id ask an attorney

Tell that to judge judy, brown, mathis, and that peoples court chicka. Thats were all the smart arm chair lawyers get their skills at. The other judges just be paternity hoes.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcfadden

Just saw this post... sounds like maybe some type of affair. Yes it can be used and the better attorney's always win. It doesn't matter when it get's to court who's wrong or right... it's always about the money

Well money isn't a problem. Even if I have to pay the dues for the rest of my life. But no, its not an affair either.

Really wish I could be more open about this, but can't find the right words to put it in.

mmcfadden · 12-30-2008, 11:40 PM

wow... this thread moves fast. My point still holds... it goes to court for whatever reason the better attorney wins...

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossku69

Im pretty sure instant messages can NOT be used unless the other person admits to them. Since they can be faked, or someone else sign in under their name, etc.

but id ask an attorney

Exactly what I was thinking. AIM, ICQ, MSN, they have no real evidence of what IP you sent it from. Sure, I might have been online when they were sent, but that person could of been too.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcfadden

wow... this thread moves fast. My point still holds... it goes to court for whatever reason the better attorney wins...

I agree with you. I think it depends on the judge as well.

mmcfadden · 12-30-2008, 11:44 PM

yes definetely... the judge who knows the attorney who gets together on holidays ;)

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcfadden

yes definetely... the judge who knows the attorney who gets together on holidays ;)

Since most judges are male.. (didn't I See a thread about this a few days ago, black women judges?) I should hire a hot female attorney.

and hope I either get a male judge or a lesbian black one...

mmcfadden · 12-30-2008, 11:48 PM

if your around philly area I can direct you to the best criminal or civil attorney's around

mmcfadden · 12-30-2008, 11:49 PM

$400 per hour for criminal... $475 for civil/divorce

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcfadden

if your around philly area I can direct you to the best criminal or civil attorney's around

Pittsburgh actually.. think they would take a drive over for lil' ol' me? lol

jmcb420 · 12-30-2008, 11:52 PM

I know e-mails can be used, Especially in divorce cases....but you have made it clear this is no divorce..
Sometimes the evidence wont stand up if it wasn't legaly obtained.
If the other party in your case illegaly obtained the IM's in question (no warrent / password hack) then any lawyer 2 days out of lawschool can get them thrown out.

Unless you were doing something really really really bad, I wouldn't worry to much.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcb420

I know e-mails can be used, Especially in divorce cases....but you have made it clear this is no divorce..
Sometimes the evidence wont stand up if it wasn't legaly obtained.
If the other party in your case illegaly obtained the IM's in question (no warrent / password hack) then any lawyer 2 days out of lawschool can get them thrown out.

Unless you were doing something really really really bad, I wouldn't worry to much.

The person who obtained them owned the computer. The person that the messages were sent to from another source was using that computer. It wasn't a setup or anything. They had every right to look at it, but morally its wrong.

Who is the moral court judge again? lol.

skrinkladoo · 12-30-2008, 11:54 PM

highly doubtful, and if you have a good attorney - hell no.

a good attorney would request proof from the opp. side it was you that typed it, such as a witness, there is a burden on that request. A good attorney could prove you have a virus - and thereby the pc could have been exploited. Guess what you prob. got a few and dont even know it. A good attorney would keep it out of evidence all together. Its not like you just get to say heres my 100 pieces of evidence - and its all gonna be allowed in.

I'd say without proof - you got hear-say, and thats worthless.
Not to mention just about anything you say or write can be written off as "banter" with a good attorney.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-30-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrinkladoo

highly doubtful, and if you have a good attorney - hell no.

a good attorney would request proof from the opp. side it was you that typed it, such as a witness, there is a burden on that request. A good attorney could prove you have a virus - and thereby the pc could have been exploited. Guess what you prob. got a few and dont even know it. A good attorney would keep it out of evidence all together. Its not like you just get to say heres my 100 pieces of evidence - and its all gonna be allowed in.

I'd say without proof - you got hear-say, and thats worthless.
Not to mention just about anything you say or write can be written off as "banter" with a good attorney.

I agree. So if the attorney did ask if they were sent by me.. what would be the proper answer?

jmcb420 · 12-31-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x Shady x

The person who obtained them owned the computer. The person that the messages were sent to from another source was using that computer. It wasn't a setup or anything. They had every right to look at it, but morally its wrong.

Who is the moral court judge again? lol.

That sounds pretty bad. Call these guys, a friend of mine used them here in Ohio (i'm near youngstown) and they got him off quicker then a $5 hooker:

Harshman & Gervelis Attorneys At Law
105 W Market St Warren, OH.
Phone: 330-395-3323

And I do believe these guys also work civil and criminal law in PA. Their a bit closer then philly, you may want to check them out.

WarChild · 12-31-2008, 12:01 AM

Why do people keep talking about using IM evidence in a divorce? Aren't most states No Fault divorce law now or do you actually have to sue for divorce and the court finds someone at fault in some of your ass backwards states?

Spieglergirls · 12-31-2008, 12:01 AM

If it's a Criminal case, before anyone could enter the IMs into evidence, they would have to prove that YOU sent the IMs (to the exclusion of all other persons).

Regarding Tell that to judge Judy, brown, Mathis, and that peoples court chick - all of the cases on these shows are Civil cases and have a lower threshold with respect to what may (or may not) be entered into evidence.

(BTW, the shows on TV are technically not really court cases. The participants on all these shows all consent to enter into a binding arbitration agreement with the "judge" being the final arbiter).

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcb420

That sounds pretty bad. Call these guys, a friend of mine used them here in Ohio (i'm near youngstown) and they got him off quicker then a $5 hooker:

Harshman & Gervelis Attorneys At Law
105 W Market St Warren, OH.
Phone: 330-395-3323

And I do believe these guys also work civil and criminal law in PA. Their a bit closer then philly, you may want to check them out.

Thanks man. I am about less than a half hour from Youngstown. Hopefully they can be used in PA courts. Think they will be in on New Years Eve?

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spieglergirls

If it's a Criminal case, before anyone could enter the IMs into evidence, they would have to prove that YOU sent the IMs (to the exclusion of all other persons).

How could they prove I sent the IM's? I don't think they can. They might be able to ask my cable provide if I was online during that time, but that pretty much is it, am I right?

After Shock Media · 12-31-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Why do people keep talking about using IM evidence in a divorce? Aren't most states No Fault divorce law now or do you actually have to sue for divorce and the court finds someone at fault in some of your ass backwards states?

I think there are like 10-15 states that still have a fault divorce option but if I recall all of them also have no fault. I get confused by this too. Perhaps everyone has crazy amounts of imaginary money to defend and their prenuptial agreement has some sort of fault clause or something.

Spieglergirls · 12-31-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x Shady x

I agree. So if the attorney did ask if they were sent by me.. what would be the proper answer?

Are you referring to your Attorney or the District Attorney?

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spieglergirls

Are you referring to your Attorney or the District Attorney?

The attorney I hire.

After Shock Media · 12-31-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spieglergirls

If it's a Criminal case, before anyone could enter the IMs into evidence, they would have to prove that YOU sent the IMs (to the exclusion of all other persons).

Regarding Tell that to judge Judy, brown, Mathis, and that peoples court chick - all of the cases on these shows are Civil cases and have a lower threshold with respect to what may (or may not) be entered into evidence.

(BTW, the shows on TV are technically not really court cases. The participants on all these shows all consent to enter into a binding arbitration agreement with the "judge" being the final arbiter).

I was being a smart ass. It was more about gaining legal knowledge and less about the actual cases.

jmcb420 · 12-31-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x Shady x

Thanks man. I am about less than a half hour from Ohio. Hopefully they can be used in PA courts. Think they will be in on New Years Eve?

I dont know about the lawyers themselves being there, but i do know these guys have criminal investigators at their offices who are likely to be there.

bdld · 12-31-2008, 12:09 AM

the casey anthony trial will feature IM's she sent to the babys father, so we'll see how the defense handles that one.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcb420

I dont know about the lawyers themselves being there, but i do know these guys have criminal investigators at their offices who are likely to be there.

Thanks man. One more question not sure if you can help me with this as well.

You know.. the New Year is coming.. I want to start out fresh.. so I was thinking about reformatting my computer. Should I wait, or just go ahead and do it, since it is the New Year, and all.

bdld · 12-31-2008, 12:10 AM

and if what you did/said was legal, dont worry about it then

Spieglergirls · 12-31-2008, 12:10 AM

Tell your Attorney the truth if he asks you. You don't want him to get blindsided by the DA. He won't be able to divulge anything you tell him due to "Attorney/Client privilege".

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdld

and if what you did/said was legal, dont worry about it then

Just depends on what you consider legal.

Spieglergirls · 12-31-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

I was being a smart ass. It was more about gaining legal knowledge and less about the actual cases.

I apologize.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spieglergirls

Tell your Attorney the truth if he asks you. You don't want him to get blindsided by the DA. He won't be able to divulge anything you tell him due to "Attorney/Client privilege".

Thanks for all of your help.

mmcfadden · 12-31-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x Shady x

Just depends on what you consider legal.

I think it may be time to post the said IM infraction and let the judge, jury, attorney and peers at this fine board make legal and binding decisions

After Shock Media · 12-31-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spieglergirls

I apologize.

No need. Just making it clear.

WiredGuy · 12-31-2008, 12:14 AM

If the method they acquired the data was illegal, it shouldn't be admissable.
WG

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmcfadden

I think it may be time to post the said IM infraction and let the judge, jury, attorney and peers at this fine board make legal and binding decisions

I'm thinking about it. Don't worry.

jmcb420 · 12-31-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x Shady x

Thanks man. One more question not sure if you can help me with this as well.

You know.. the New Year is coming.. I want to start out fresh.. so I was thinking about reformatting my computer. Should I wait, or just go ahead and do it, since it is the New Year, and all.

I wouldn't be the one to ask for that. Destroying evidence can be a big mistake in the long run.

And about what you tell your lawyer...........ALWAYS TELL YOUR LAWYER THE TRUTH.

They cant defend you if you lie to them, and their paid to defend you wether or not they know you're guilty. They dont care, just tell them the truth. Thy'll probobly tell you to never repeat it again.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

If the method they acquired the data was illegal, it shouldn't be admissable.
WG

Completely legal.

Phil LoadedCash · 12-31-2008, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcb420

I wouldn't be the one to ask for that. Destroying evidence can be a big mistake in the long run.

And about what you tell your lawyer...........ALWAYS TELL YOUR LAWYER THE TRUTH.

They cant defend you if you lie to them, and their paid to defend you wether or not they know you're guilty. They dont care, just tell them the truth. Thy'll probobly tell you to never repeat it again.

Alright thanks.

12-30-2008, 11:30 PM	#1
Phil LoadedCash LoadedCash AM Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pittsburgh Area Posts: 462	Legal Help Are chat conversation (via IM) used in court? Can they be consider evidence or not, since anyone can log on anyone's screen name?

12-30-2008, 11:32 PM	#3
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	Sure why not. Well may be harder to use in a criminal case but civil I see no issues and small claims would fall into a hell yes. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

12-30-2008, 11:37 PM	#9
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	Were you trying to sell something online you should not be selling. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

12-30-2008, 11:52 PM	#23
jmcb420 So Fucking Drunk Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,155	I know e-mails can be used, Especially in divorce cases....but you have made it clear this is no divorce.. Sometimes the evidence wont stand up if it wasn't legaly obtained. If the other party in your case illegaly obtained the IM's in question (no warrent / password hack) then any lawyer 2 days out of lawschool can get them thrown out. Unless you were doing something really really really bad, I wouldn't worry to much. __________________ I'm funner than AIDS, and easier to explain to your parents.

12-30-2008, 11:54 PM	#25
skrinkladoo Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: South Florida - "Fuck Bitches and Fight Crime - It's all we do! Posts: 629	highly doubtful, and if you have a good attorney - hell no. a good attorney would request proof from the opp. side it was you that typed it, such as a witness, there is a burden on that request. A good attorney could prove you have a virus - and thereby the pc could have been exploited. Guess what you prob. got a few and dont even know it. A good attorney would keep it out of evidence all together. Its not like you just get to say heres my 100 pieces of evidence - and its all gonna be allowed in. I'd say without proof - you got hear-say, and thats worthless. Not to mention just about anything you say or write can be written off as "banter" with a good attorney. __________________ * Andrew Love * Services: (1) Web Design, (2) Graphic Design, (3) E-commerce, (4) Database Development, (5) Web Analytics, (6) Targeted Lead Generation, (7) Marketing and Consulting Mainstream: Successful Website Landing Page Design \| ICQ: 360-83-9627

12-30-2008, 11:31 PM	#2
mmcfadden So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: philly Posts: 5,099	can u post the im message? and yes... it could certainly be used

12-30-2008, 11:33 PM	#5
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Bump for a interesting question.

12-30-2008, 11:36 PM	#7
mmcfadden So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: philly Posts: 5,099	if it's divorce... it will be into evidence like cookie dough in betty crocker

12-30-2008, 11:40 PM	#15
mmcfadden So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: philly Posts: 5,099	wow... this thread moves fast. My point still holds... it goes to court for whatever reason the better attorney wins...

12-30-2008, 11:44 PM	#18
mmcfadden So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: philly Posts: 5,099	yes definetely... the judge who knows the attorney who gets together on holidays ;)

12-30-2008, 11:48 PM	#20
mmcfadden So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: philly Posts: 5,099	if your around philly area I can direct you to the best criminal or civil attorney's around

12-30-2008, 11:49 PM	#21
mmcfadden So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: philly Posts: 5,099	$400 per hour for criminal... $475 for civil/divorce

12-31-2008, 12:01 AM	#28
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	Why do people keep talking about using IM evidence in a divorce? Aren't most states No Fault divorce law now or do you actually have to sue for divorce and the court finds someone at fault in some of your ass backwards states? __________________ .

12-31-2008, 12:01 AM	#29
Spieglergirls Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Porn Valley, Ca. Posts: 476	If it's a Criminal case, before anyone could enter the IMs into evidence, they would have to prove that YOU sent the IMs (to the exclusion of all other persons). Regarding Tell that to judge Judy, brown, Mathis, and that peoples court chick - all of the cases on these shows are Civil cases and have a lower threshold with respect to what may (or may not) be entered into evidence. (BTW, the shows on TV are technically not really court cases. The participants on all these shows all consent to enter into a binding arbitration agreement with the "judge" being the final arbiter). __________________ Mark Spiegler "Patron of the Tarts" http://www.spieglergirls.com/html/main.html

12-31-2008, 12:09 AM	#37
bdld $100,000 Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 11,452	the casey anthony trial will feature IM's she sent to the babys father, so we'll see how the defense handles that one.

12-31-2008, 12:10 AM	#39
bdld $100,000 Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 11,452	and if what you did/said was legal, dont worry about it then

12-31-2008, 12:14 AM	#46
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,460	If the method they acquired the data was illegal, it shouldn't be admissable. WG __________________ I play with Google.