Originally Posted by dyna mo

i trust that when you say *surfer* that means *customer*

Originally Posted by will76

Sure it is very important to get user feed back. In the past I have given users $20 - $50 of free cam credits just to have them take a simple survey so I could get some honest feed back, whether it was good or bad.

We all think we may know what works best but we really don't know until we can get feed back from the people who actually spend money on the site. Typically if you have 1 person complain about something then there was 10 - 20 more that were unhappy but just left instead of taking the time to tell you.

I get all of that an agree 100%.

Obviously what you are saying here is find out what the surfer wants, likes, what their needs are, etc... but if you don't like some of the answers ignore what they want. If there is something that they don't like or need (cross sales) well then screw 'em on that because we would lose too much money if we removed it. hence what I am saying that it is contradictory. Having cross sales prechecked on your site and going on and on about being pro surfer and not trying to upset them, that we need to give them what they want couldn't be two more contradictory statements. Do you agree or you have found a way to justify in your head that prechecked cross sales is a good thing for the surfer and you just giving them more of what they want. Or when it comes to the bottom line you really don't care what they want, you just want to do what makes you the most money.

I'm just trying to figure out where you coming from. You are hardcore on something one way then you pull a 180 minutes later and go hardcore the other route. When you thought cross sales were bad you vilified people for doing it. Then magically when you changed your mind and thought they were ok, over night it was an ok practice for everyone because you changed your mind. It's hard to keep up with you and your views of what is right and wrong. So what is the deal on pre checked cross sales... fuck'em its about the bottom line, or you just giving them more of what they want ?

Originally Posted by Shap

Like I said I think you are confusing what I'm saying in this thread with past threads/post by me. What I am saying is you have to understand the surfers position. Once you do you can make decisions as to how far you can push things. We've added a number of revenue generating options to our site in the past 3 years. Every one of them surfers dislike. Cross Sales? Dislike. Banners? Dislike. Removing trial? Dislike. That said we've been engaged with our surfers throughout the process. We've watched very closely how they react to every change we make. We've had a few that were really negative (lol I had warned my team about one of them but let them give it a 2 day shot). The key is to watch, listen and learn.

Whether your intentions are good or bad (banging cards) you have to understand the customer and their behavior.

Originally Posted by will76

Ok, I understand what you saying now. Find out what you surfers like and if you can give it to them if it is easy and inexpensive to do. If they don't like things you are doing that you generate income from then ignore what they want as long as it makes you more money then you lose from the pissed off ones.

I wonder how many people cancel after they get their first cc bill because they see extra charges they didn't signup for, because they missed the prechecked cross sale. They either over react and cancel everything or they go back and realize the site slipped one in on them so they cancel because they are pissed about it. Obviously though you make more money then you lose from pissing people off with cross sales or you wouldn't do it. Which would be a better focus of this thread, how to make the most money off of your customers while minimizing the damage. I'm not knocking you, was just trying to figure out where you were going with this thread.

Originally Posted by Shap

I had a reply written up and then just erased it. You just like to argue man. I don't post here anymore because I just have no time for any bs. I've made my money and don't have the time to waste arguing anymore. My golf game is too far from where I need it to be to spend time on an adult board going back and forth over non stop on something.

The point of the thread was to help people out and give them something to think about that may help their business.

Originally Posted by Shap

One of my biggest challenges has been teaching our staff to identify with the surfer and understand the surfer's habits, wants, needs, triggers etc. Most of our guys get caught up in the day to day stuff and forget about the most important thing of all. I imagine the same happens with a number of you.

Times are tough. You need every advantage you can get. If you want to give yourself a fighting chance make sure you do your best to identify with your surfers

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

It definitely happens to me too.

Try being in the designer's seat every single day. Not only do I need to identify with the surfers, attempt to put myself into a frame of mind of being "into it" for every project. Some of the shit out there is not easy to even fake being into.... lol... and of course follow the client brief, and then at the same time, remaining as generally vanilla minded as possible so that technical design judgment doesn't go flying out the window in the process.

Shit... some days I feel like a serious multiple-personality train wreck.