One of the toughest things to teach/learn and a key to your success

[Shap]

One of my biggest challenges has been teaching our staff to identify with the surfer and understand the surfer's habits, wants, needs, triggers etc. Most of our guys get caught up in the day to day stuff and forget about the most important thing of all. I imagine the same happens with a number of you.

Times are tough. You need every advantage you can get. If you want to give yourself a fighting chance make sure you do your best to identify with your surfers

[Barefootsies]

A-FUCKING-MEN.

It's very difficult to teach anyone the way's of the web. Especially a employee not vested in it.

Shake Yer Bon Bon Baby.

[Grapesoda]

yep, no more trying to impress photographers.... impress the surfers

[seeandsee]

prepiad sales 10000$ ok? :D

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by seeandsee

prepiad sales 10000$ ok? :D

[Shap]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

yep, no more trying to impress photographers.... impress the surfers

On Twistys the photographers that remember they are shooting porn do best. We've had photographers get so wrapped up in showcasing their photography skills that they forget to get pics of the girls pussy.

A huge thing for us was getting our photographers interacting with our members. It's paid off huge in my opinion. The members understand the photographers better and our photographers are starting to understand our members better.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Shap

A huge thing for us was getting our photographers interacting with our members. It's paid off huge in my opinion. The members understand the photographers better and our photographers are starting to understand our members better.

That is key.

Ever since I had started, I have been proactive in getting input from members and patrons. Asking for their scripts and ideas. Even allowing some of them to pay for custom shoots. That has resulted in tailored, high converting and retaining, porn that keeps members happy.

They feel like they are in this with you, and you will listen. Luckily for me, I am a smaller company and can shoot their requests within a week or two most of the time. Which members really like. Seeing their ideas come to life with their favorite skeezers.

[dyna mo]

i trust that when you say *surfer* that means *customer*

[Shap]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i trust that when you say *surfer* that means *customer*

I should have said customer. Good point

[tonyparra]

i said there is no such thing as traffic. those are people.

[CaptainHowdy]

Guess I will never learn, thanks anyways...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Shap

On Twistys the photographers that remember they are shooting porn do best. We've had photographers get so wrapped up in showcasing their photography skills that they forget to get pics of the girls pussy.

A huge thing for us was getting our photographers interacting with our members. It's paid off huge in my opinion. The members understand the photographers better and our photographers are starting to understand our members better.

yup. chat with the members all time

[Paul Markham]

Empathy with the customer is the first rule of selling.

I'm lucky being a pervert.

[PXN]

It also means you need to spend your money more wisely - using the money for operational cost instead of paying smart-ass lawyers to go after people with your trademark name which they know you can't succeed anyway.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Empathy with the customer is the first rule of selling.

I'm lucky being a pervert.

I love trying to get into the psychology of a niche. Understanding what makes them need what they are looking for and trying to cater to those needs. It is what makes it fun to look at the computer every day, fine tuning the approach.

it is also the most difficult thing to learn or teach to someone else, too many people are hampered by their own prejudices to allow them to see past themselves.

I think cum shots, especially facials are personally kinda gross, but I understand them and can sell them

[MetaMan]

One key thing i have found is content distribution. Some people prefer to view the same content in different ways. If you make the experience more flexible for people they are more likely to continue to use your site.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Shap

One of my biggest challenges has been teaching our staff to identify with the surfer and understand the surfer's habits, wants, needs, triggers etc. Most of our guys get caught up in the day to day stuff and forget about the most important thing of all. I imagine the same happens with a number of you.

Times are tough. You need every advantage you can get. If you want to give yourself a fighting chance make sure you do your best to identify with your surfers

I could not agree more this has always been one of our #1 priorities.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shap

One of my biggest challenges has been teaching our staff to identify with the surfer and understand the surfer's habits, wants, needs, triggers etc. Most of our guys get caught up in the day to day stuff and forget about the most important thing of all. I imagine the same happens with a number of you.

Times are tough. You need every advantage you can get. If you want to give yourself a fighting chance make sure you do your best to identify with your surfers

surfers want cross sales ???

[arock10]

or just generate more traffic

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by will76

surfers want cross sales ???

Without a doubt! Double cross sales make the even happier.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by will76

surfers want cross sales ???

It is about understanding the surfer and how they treat their online purchases. Once you do that you can manage your billing options optimally. We engage with our members and cross sales have never been a problem. In fact they've never been brought up on our forum.

To answer your question directly the answer IMO is NO they don't LIKE them. Of the surfers that take cross sales I believe 30% of them realize they are taking it. The other 70% are poor bastards that didn't read the fine print.

[Shap]

Double post iPhone lol

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shap

It is about understanding the surfer and how they treat their online purchases. Once you do that you can manage your billing options optimally. We engage with our members and cross sales have never been a problem. In fact they've never been brought up on our forum.

To answer your question directly the answer IMO is NO they don't LIKE them. Of the surfers that take cross sales I believe 30% of them realize they are taking it. The other 70% are poor bastards that didn't read the fine print.

While I agree with your original post doesn't your auctions contradict what you are saying by having prechecked cross sales on your join page. If you need to "understand you customer's wants and needs" etc etc etc. and knowing that 70% (I would bet it's more like 95%+) don't want cross sales then why you try to slip that extra charge in on those "poor bastards" who didn't see the fine print and didn't want the extra charges.

While I would have 1 cross sale on my site. I will at least call a spade a spade and not try to BS that the surfer doesn't mind, or that he wants it. A cross sale is a way to try to slip in more charges. If you really believed that surfers want it, then DON'T PRECHECK the cross sale box and then run some stats and see how many actually check it. I bet you less than 5% will check the box for a cross sale, proof that they don't want it.

[StuartD]

They seem to like me. I'm giving them features they want.

[DateDoc]

Too many people are convinced that because they like it everyone else will. You have to put yourself in your surfers shoes and look at your site from their point of view. A friend of mine owns a tube site and was asking about which sponsors to use and I told him put everything up he can and see what people click on the most then put more of that up.

[JayAllan]

Originally Posted by Shap

On Twistys the photographers that remember they are shooting porn do best. We've had photographers get so wrapped up in showcasing their photography skills that they forget to get pics of the girls pussy.

Getting a great shot of that pussy is what great photography is all about in this biz ;)

[american pervert]

People love to over shoot things, then go and over edit them til the thing looks like an MTV video. When I shoot all I think about is what do the pervs want to see.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by will76

While I agree with your original post doesn't your auctions contradict what you are saying by having prechecked cross sales on your join page. If you need to "understand you customer's wants and needs" etc etc etc. and knowing that 70% (I would bet it's more like 95%+) don't want cross sales then why you try to slip that extra charge in on those "poor bastards" who didn't see the fine print and didn't want the extra charges.

While I would have 1 cross sale on my site. I will at least call a spade a spade and not try to BS that the surfer doesn't mind, or that he wants it. A cross sale is a way to try to slip in more charges. If you really believed that surfers want it, then DON'T PRECHECK the cross sale box and then run some stats and see how many actually check it. I bet you less than 5% will check the box for a cross sale, proof that they don't want it.

I think you are confusing things I've said in the past and what I've posted in this thread. What I'm saying in this thread is you have to understand and think like your customer. Once you do that you can then make better business decisions as to how to properly manage your projects. You can't give your surfers everything they want. They'd want the best quality, most content, fastest speed, no ads, and no cost.

Am I missing something? You seem hell bent on starting an argument over cross sales with me. How is that relevant to what I've said in this thread?

[Relentless]

WhenI started in this industry the prevailing POV was that 'surfers' are al morons and know nothing about how this business works or what makes good content etc etc...

That has changed dramatically. Maybe now owners are starting to understand the fact that many of their clients know more about porn than they do, understand video formats and new tech as well as they do... and essentially just want a fair deal on a quality product at a reasonable price.

[Jman]

Originally Posted by american pervert

People love to over shoot things, then go and over edit them til the thing looks like an MTV video. When I shoot all I think about is what do the pervs want to see.

[StuartD]

Originally Posted by Relentless

WhenI started in this industry the prevailing POV was that 'surfers' are al morons and know nothing about how this business works or what makes good content etc etc...

That has changed dramatically. Maybe now owners are starting to understand the fact that many of their clients know more about porn than they do, understand video formats and new tech as well as they do... and essentially just want a fair deal on a quality product at a reasonable price.

I've always said, I can build a form that says "Enter your name here" and webmasters ask me what to do.. but I build an encoded, secure, sanatized, minimal entry join form and the surfers will find a way to crack it for free access for themselves and their friends.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Relentless

WhenI started in this industry the prevailing POV was that 'surfers' are al morons and know nothing about how this business works or what makes good content etc etc...

That has changed dramatically. Maybe now owners are starting to understand the fact that many of their clients know more about porn than they do, understand video formats and new tech as well as they do... and essentially just want a fair deal on a quality product at a reasonable price.

Well said fine sire.

[bronco67]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to "be the surfer"? How can you understand what a surfer wants, if you don't love the product yourself, and surf for it a little?

[Black Ops]

It's a lot easier when you are selling in a market you personally LOVE and ENJOY, rather than just trying to make money from it. If you don't love it, how can you expect your customers to?

[_Richard_]

words of wisdom!

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Black Ops

It's a lot easier when you are selling in a market you personally LOVE and ENJOY, rather than just trying to make money from it. If you don't love it, how can you expect your customers to?

times are changing for sure, 11 years ago I could submit a shemale gallery and make tons of sales and trust me I am NOT into shemales lol

[Dwreck]

I studied members behavior and it helped conversions and affiliates get conversions. I not only run cam sites I'm also a member to many. Im a fanboy.

I hear alot of male ego comes into play...Like Bro been doing this stuff so long I don't even look at the shit im selling or Dude i get laid so much I don't need porn I just sell the shit...

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Roald

times are changing for sure, 11 years ago I could submit a shemale gallery and make tons of sales and trust me I am NOT into shemales lol

LOL So funny Tranny was the example I was going to use as well. I always knew you and I were alike

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Shap

LOL So funny Tranny was the example I was going to use as well. I always knew you and I were alike

yeah too bad you don't have my good looks huh

;)))))

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Dwreck

I studied members behavior and it helped conversions and affiliates get conversions. I not only run cam sites I'm also a member to many. Im a fanboy.

I hear alot of male ego comes into play...Like Bro been doing this stuff so long I don't even look at the shit im selling or Dude i get laid so much I don't need porn I just sell the shit...

You know I think EGO is huge. Especially in an office setting. People are reluctant to discuss their sexual thoughts and preferences in front of co-workers. Which I totally get. It's not easy to get people to let their guard down and really shine at their job.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Roald

yeah too bad you don't have my good looks huh

;)))))

DAMN that sounds familiar. This is what Beth said to me in bed after we had dinner with you in Amsterdam. "I Love You, but it's really too bad you don't have Roald's good look."

DAMN YOU!

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Shap

DAMN that sounds familiar. This is what Beth said to me in bed after we had dinner with you in Amsterdam. "I Love You, but it's really too bad you don't have Roald's good look."

DAMN YOU!

Lol can't help it man

[Shap]

Liking a product helps but I don't think it's mandatory. I think understanding what attracts you to a product is more important. If you can identify that you can replicate it much easier across multiple projects.

[Shap]

One of the better examples I have. Is BigBreastLovers. I started BBL roughly 10 years ago at a time where mostly only general tgps. I was in college and used to go to strip clubs with my buddies. I thought skinny chicks with fake tits were hot. IE Pamela Anderson. So I built the site up with Pam type girls. Traffic didn't move and I received no emails from surfers. Then one day I put up a Linsey Dawn Mckenzie gallery. Not my type of girl but I figured what the heck. She was a bigger girl with massive natural boobs. The response was insane. Traffic soared and I received so many emails requesting more. From that day on BBL focused on naturally busty girls and did phenomenally well.

The girls that did well on BBL were not exactly what my gut would consider hot. But through running the site I was able to deliver exactly what the surfers wanted. The same with Twistys. I don't like all the girls on Twistys but I can always tell you who will be a hit and who will be a bust where it be model, photoset or video. I've come to understand what the mass of Twistys members want. It's not easy but if you really want to succeed you can figure it out. I'm so competitive and driven by success I can learn any niche. Straight, gay, tranny. If I want it to succeed it will.

[kristin]

Originally Posted by Shap

You know I think EGO is huge. Especially in an office setting. People are reluctant to discuss their sexual thoughts and preferences in front of co-workers. Which I totally get. It's not easy to get people to let their guard down and really shine at their job.

We have some people that really love porn in the office and are open to what they like.

It does help having a wide variety of tastes, and trust me - we have a diverse team.

Personally for me, lesbians make the world go round.

[OMG Jim]

One of the best threads I've seen this year as evidenced by those posting here

Many times I tend to oversimplify things but in this particular case it seems that the best way to approach this is not to try and teach someone that has experience working on the internet in our industry how to be a surfer/customer but use the a simple focus group approach.

Rather than set up a controlled focus group you can easily identify people you know and can reach through your extended personal network that fit the profile of a potential surfer/customer. Any time you are talking with one of these surfer/customers you can ask specific questions to get that valuable data you so dearly desire.

This is not rocket science as most of you have figured out but it is only when you have learned how to tap into a sufer/customer's basic human emotions, wants and needs will you be able to tap into their credit cards.

My mind of the surfer tells me that moving forward specialized niches with a fair quality to quantity to price ratio that allow customer interaction with the content will have the best chance for success. Those that run the larger all access type of programs trying to sell the S.O.S. in mass quantity will soon learn that the magic number is $9.95

_

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shap

I think you are confusing things I've said in the past and what I've posted in this thread. What I'm saying in this thread is you have to understand and think like your customer. Once you do that you can then make better business decisions as to how to properly manage your projects. You can't give your surfers everything they want. They'd want the best quality, most content, fastest speed, no ads, and no cost.

Am I missing something? You seem hell bent on starting an argument over cross sales with me. How is that relevant to what I've said in this thread?

Not sure why you trying to make this into something bigger than what it really is. Your original post said "

Originally Posted by Shap

One of my biggest challenges has been teaching our staff to identify with the surfer and understand the surfer's habits, wants, needs, triggers etc....

I asked " does a surfer want cross sales".

You said no.

/end of conversation. No confusion, the contradiction is clear.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by will76

Not sure why you trying to make this into something bigger than what it really is. Your original post said "

I asked " does a surfer want cross sales".

You said no.

/end of conversation. No confusion, the contradiction is clear.

LOL no contradiction. Understanding how someone behaves and what is important to them is key in being able to make a number of business decisions including, billing, upselling, ads, etc.

I'm not trying to make this into anything but a constructive discussion.

[Black Ops]

When a man has a hard cock in his hand there is no telling what he will do or what he will purchase. I don't think too many men sit down in front of a computer and say, "I'm going to surf the web until I find a site to join." and then to that.

It's more like, hey I want to get online or I want to rub one out. I'm gonna find the perfect girl or fantasy that does the trick. If you just so happen to have that and he doesn't know how to search for your content on the torrents, you just may get a sale. If you don't have what he's looking for, he's moving on or he may beat off just looking at your tour.

I know I can rub one off to many tours, no need to join. With such large photos on tours these days, if you're into photos, and many are, why join? Give me a tour or a good gallery and I'm set.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shap

LOL no contradiction. Understanding how someone behaves and what is important to them is key in being able to make a number of business decisions including, billing, upselling, ads, etc.

I'm not trying to make this into anything but a constructive discussion.

Sure it is very important to get user feed back. In the past I have given users $20 - $50 of free cam credits just to have them take a simple survey so I could get some honest feed back, whether it was good or bad.

We all think we may know what works best but we really don't know until we can get feed back from the people who actually spend money on the site. Typically if you have 1 person complain about something then there was 10 - 20 more that were unhappy but just left instead of taking the time to tell you.

I get all of that an agree 100%.

Obviously what you are saying here is find out what the surfer wants, likes, what their needs are, etc... but if you don't like some of the answers ignore what they want. If there is something that they don't like or need (cross sales) well then screw 'em on that because we would lose too much money if we removed it. hence what I am saying that it is contradictory. Having cross sales prechecked on your site and going on and on about being pro surfer and not trying to upset them, that we need to give them what they want couldn't be two more contradictory statements. Do you agree or you have found a way to justify in your head that prechecked cross sales is a good thing for the surfer and you just giving them more of what they want. Or when it comes to the bottom line you really don't care what they want, you just want to do what makes you the most money.

I'm just trying to figure out where you coming from. You are hardcore on something one way then you pull a 180 minutes later and go hardcore the other route. When you thought cross sales were bad you vilified people for doing it. Then magically when you changed your mind and thought they were ok, over night it was an ok practice for everyone because you changed your mind. It's hard to keep up with you and your views of what is right and wrong. So what is the deal on pre checked cross sales... fuck'em its about the bottom line, or you just giving them more of what they want ?