Those of you who want health care for everyone, I have a question.
 

Are you willing to pay for it?

The current bill wants to tax the people who make over 250K to pay for this stuff. If you don't make over 250K, it's easy for you to say we should have this.

If the cost to do this was spread evenly to everyone who makes more than 20K a year, would you still be in favor of it?

If you say NO, well the joke is on you because you can bet that this will trickle down to the middle class.

I just can't understand the logic of penalizing people who work hard and are successful and rewarding the people who are lazy and ignorant. It makes NO sense.

Why reward people for being lazy. Why reward people who are not responsible and blow the money they make. Why reward people for not trying to further educate themselves and drop out of high school. Why reward people for having 5 kids, when they can't afford to have 1. Why reward people who break the laws of this control and come here illegal? Why reward people who receive govt money and then spend it on drugs or gambling?

Why do we take more money from the people who spend years educating themselves, who work their asses off 60-80 hours a week. Who save their money and spend responsibly, who wait till they can afford to have kids, who stay away from drugs, who build successful companies and hire people (CREATE JOBS).

Our whole society is based on giving hand outs and rewarding people for not contributing positively in our society and trying to drag down the people who are making the biggest contributions and have busted their ass with blood sweat and tears to do so.

I just doesn't make any sense. How can anyone with 2 brain cells think that this system is fair, much less in the best interest of EVERYONE. Tearing down the people who contribute so they can give free hand outs to the bottom DOES NOT help the country as a whole prosper int the right direction. People should be held accountable for their actions and if they truly need help, then they can get it. But if they are just lazy and riding the system (like most) they shouldn't be given a penny. Get up off you ass and get a job, be responsible with your money, stop doing drugs, stop having kids you can't afford. As long as they are receiving free money they will have no incentive to change... /rant

oh shut up man.

I'd like some one to please reduce the amount of paper generated by hospitals, physicians and insurance companies. If your kid has an injection you might get 6 bills / explanation of benefits etc. Stupid.

lol i'm going to post 100x more since I know you like reading them so much :winkwink:

i still don't understand what makes you proud about being the only civilized country without a working healthcare system.

Without a working health care system?
Get a clue with your propaganda. I don't understand why all of a sudden, people think that America should be like every other nation. Our values are distinct from other nations and they'll always stay that way.

How does rich people stay rich? Because they are fucking greedy.

So you don't see a problem with people dying because they can't afford to pay for treatment?

i missed where i was proud about anything, can you point that part out for me ?

This rant is about the people who don't contribute getting the free handouts, on the backs of the people who do contribute.

If someone was working 2 jobs, trying hard, got laid off because their company went out of business I would have no problem helping them out. BUt WAY too much money goes to the people who just ride the system. That just makes the whole country weaker.

How many that don't have insurance go to the emergency room, do you think?

No system is perfect but and the current health care insurance reform bill is a step in the right direction towards single payer health care.

The problem is the health insurance company.

we already pay for it with higher premiums, healthcare costs, etc.

how do you think it gets paid for now?

I'm not sure if I should be discussing it on this forum, seeing as how i'll get the usual load of crap regarding "relativism". I'm a strong proponent of classical liberals, and minus the slavery issue, the 50's were the greatest time in American history.

Yea, because government isn't MORE corrupt. ROFL what an idiot

WTF ? The more income you make the bigger the % you give to government. How about a thank you? but instead you call those people greedy? :upsidedow

It's an emotional response triggered by stupidity and insecurity.

We have a similar system over here in the Uk and it works well for both poor and well off people, why shouldent it work for you guys over in the USA. A lot of people over here are saved by our NHS system and it does not break thier bank accounts when they do get ill like you see happening in the US

Remind me what your economic status is and how many people are in the UK. Then tell me the average waiting time for you guys. I've met people from the UK that both loved their system, and hated it.

I see a problem with the people who make over 250K footing the bill, instead of everyone sharing the cost.

Everytime they want to do something (typically to give to the bottom) the rape the top. In this case I think it will trickle down to the middle class and then those people who voted for this will be pissed because I bet 1/2 of them voted for it because they though they wouldn't have to pay for it.

so if everyone knows the cost just trickles down to the middle class, what is the big deal?

Wow that is just plain stupid thinking you have there, I have two kids I pay for my insurance my home my car and don't think I'm lazy, well some days I am but that's prolly a lot to do with the cancer in my body. Every time I turn around my insurance company is raising my prices. I have been in adult for 10 years though I may not be a high roller as yourself but I make enough to make ends meet most months! I really think our health care needs to be reformed, I do not know if this is the right way or wrong way hell I don't even know what all is in this damn bill.

For someone like you to be standing on YOUR HIGH PEDAL STOOL ranting and raving about this sure shows how much of a shitty life you have! Try to explain what all is bad with this bill and maybe try and find what is good with it as well. Put yourself in others shoes, you work hard have a lot then find yourself jobless or some medical issue pops up and all your money gets taken for hospital bills that your insurance only paid 80% of.

Like my sister for instance, she has asthma so bad she can't work because she can't even go from her room to the bathroom without having an attack. I can assure you she would rather work then be bed ridden. But I know there is no talking to you because your too good for people that don't make as much money as you do. Sad!

:::sigh:: Another emotional outburst devoid of any logic.. Hope you have better luck with Obamacare..

I believe in social programs. I give to charities. I have no problem sharing with those who have not.

I've had the pleasure to know many people from may walks of life and I can say from my personal experience it seems a higher percentage of wealthy upper class people are cheating the system avoiding taxes and hiding money (using devices such as offshore bank accounts and creative accounting, etc), than poor / lower class people scamming social programs.

I don't think our system is perfect. I would like to see the programs we have in place policed to a much higher degree, but the same should go for policing the cash flow in this country. I think this would save our country money and create more jobs.

Will, a lot of poor people bust their ass they just don't make much money. A large number of rich people are rich thru circumstance not hard work ...

That being said what's more important is based on the percentage of our GDP that total health care represents we ARE paying enough for everyone to be covered already.

As taxpayers and private citizens we continue to fund more than enough, what we need is leadership starting fresh not making the existing mess more complicated.

Do not reelect the same old DEM/REP puppets.


.

will,
it is impossible for everyone to make more than 250k a year and everyone that makes 20k a year is not lazy

fact

Reread what I posted.

everyone doesn't know. Most people are sheep, they can't see 2 feet in front of them. They most likely don't think it will ever change to where it will affect them. I am saying that you can bet it will change. If they knew they would have to pay for it too they probably wouldn't have voted for it. It's typically how the govt works they make you think it is just fucking the rich so people vote it in then before you know it they reduce it down from everyone over 250K pays for it to everyone over 100K or 50K.

Yes. I already pay into Medicare. I think it's a better use of tax dollars than some of the other shit that goes on.
Of course, if we're speaking proportionately.
There's plenty of hard working low-wage earners and plenty of lazy "successful" people. Not every low-wage earner has 5 kids and is a social parasite. And, is health care a reward? I think it should be a right. But that's my opinion.

You're making the false assumption that every person who makes a lot of money is a hard worker and whose life ambition is to help the economy and others by creating jobs. In my (limited) experience, the small companies I have worked for cut jobs to free up payroll the moment the coke-head boss couldn't get another 300k car.

What about those who make 250k+ but didn't bust their ass? How about those who just got lucky with rich families? Our tax system is designed such that the more you make, the more you pay. This is the same when our tax dollars go to health care, education, war, or anything else. Of all the things our government throws money at, health care is one of the least offensive.

So what you're saying is since I don't suck your cock or will's that my views are just an outburst? Come on man I know you're a troll and all but you really can't think that!

Are you insinuating that most poor people work harder than most rich people? How about the fact that poor people have the option to get an education and move up the socioeconomic ladder? No? Is it just "oh I feel bad for poor people because they're poor"? Way to alienate them rofl.

And a completely hysterical rebuttal. Nice strawman btw. No, your outburst was nothing but emotional, which would make you a troll in this regard, thanks for playing. :thumbsup

it's not "our values" since you already said that you are not american, you moron

(see, i can also stick to name calling :winkwink: )



it wasn't directed at your particular post - more at the general discussion. which is quite sickening (no pun intended) from an outside point of view.

no healthcare system i have seen so far is perfect, but i am quite happy that no one over here goes bankrupt over medical bills. and that's because health care is mandatory and (relatively) affordable. and guess what - the average life expectancy is about the same as in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

(and i won't comment about the US being one place behind Cuba at this point..)

Our economic situation is just as bad as the US and yes way back people had to wait but but it wasent for urgent procedures. Our system is not 100% but it works and we also have the option of going private if we wish. I had to be rushed to hospital for an appendix when I was in my late 20s.
I was in and out very quickly and I couldent have asked for a better service. I would rather have this kind of system we have so that I know that its not gonna make me bankrupt if I get sick. I can get treated when ever I need to without any questions or hassle. When my dad had cancer I also could not have asked for a better treatment which they gave him before he died

Yea but you look like a fucking moron for doing it, seeing as how I never said I wasn't American(since I am), ROFL. No wonder your stupid ass doesn't post in these threads often, you can't even follow a simple discussion.


Nice link. Then again, you have no concept of correlation, seeing as how you're using our life expectancy to try and prove our healthcare sucks, regarding other factors such as crime, poverty, etc.

Jesus christ dude can you fucking read what I posted before you go off on me. You are the type of person I would be glad to help. asshole lol. I said I don't like paying for people who are:

Do you fit into any of those situations? Or do you fit into this one:

I'm not on a high pedal stool. You totally missed everything I posted.

1. I think everyone should pay for everything equally. Not pay 15% of taxes if your income is 30K, but pay 33% in taxes if your income is 250K. You are already paying more in taxes by the nature of making more money, but why make the % go up too? Why do people have to pay 2x more in income taxes because they made 250K opposed to someone who made 30K ?

2.What I was saying specifically about this bill is that I don't think it is fair to put all of the costs of the new health care all on the backs of the people who make more than 250K a year. Why can't everyone contribute to it? And that I wondered how many people making under 250K would have voted for it if they knew they would have to pay for it too.


3. My general rant on how *most* NOT ALL of the people on the bottom are just riding the system. It's fucked up taxing me more to pay for someone who is on drugs or who blows his money on crap or is totally irresponsible. However, AS I HAVE SAID. I have no problem having my money go to someone who is trying, and who really needs it. ACTUALLY IF YOU CUT OUT ALL OF THE WASTE / DEAD BEATS AT THE BOTTOM THAT WOULD BE THAT MUCH MORE MONEY AVAILABLE TO GO TO THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT AND ARE TRYING.

but thanks for totally not reading what I said and jumping my ass for it.

Luckily enough, with the cut-back in administrative costs and operational savings, the middle class will just end up paying less and making the 'over 250k' less money in the process

funny that

I'd say you make perfect sense.

I don't work harder, I work smarter. Do any of us work as hard as mirgrant workers picking grapes?

America is the land of opportunity, but not everyone has the same potential. It's not all about ambition and drive. There's alot to be said about raw intellegence, luck plays a part as well. Not everyone is given the same opportunities in life, but even if you could put ev everyone on an even playing field it's a fact all people aren't created equal. You could have all the ambition and drive in the world, but if you don't have the intellect to see the forrest for the trees you're going to wind up on the outside track.

To repeat the old phrase, "The world needs dishwashers too."

yaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn.......

your statements are too broad...

Youre not keying on on everyone as a whole, youre keying in on the people at fault... which isnt everyone...

not reading the rest...


My statement here has nothing to do with my view on the current politics or laws being passed but rather the broad statement fromt he OP...