Relic

50 hast doth thithers

The Porn Nerd

The funny thing is, running a simple paysite with vintage content (which is what Paul has) does not take an enormous amount of time. Sure, setting things up takes time like with anything else but once it's up-and-running it's minimal labor.

My point here is if Paul took all the energy he spends typing on GFY he could easily handle running a paysite and then growing it by implementing his ideas to show us how wrong we all are. And if Paul wanted to use outsourced $2 an hour labor to help him then it's even easier to do. But Paul is not the only one; Shap is the same way and he has resources far beyond Paul's (or mine).

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Paul Markham

I don't post obsessively 24/7. Look at the time of my posts. I do have more time than most of you who have to work to pay bills.

I'm retired and registered as an invalid, people wh have met me recently will tell you I'm not as agile as I should be.

As you joined in 2001 you will remember all the people who told me I was wrong whn I pointed out they were prioritising the killing of sales. They said it was BS even though 99% of the surfers on their site didn't buy. How they knew 99% of consumers didn't buy porn after clicking and why they didn't buy is the strange part.

Now we have a ratio of less than 99.99% of porn consumers buying. It's my turn.

Does that answer your question of why I post and do you have anything positive to add?

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Paul Markham

If you think it's so easy and profitable, I assume you don't think it will lose money. Buy my content and make money. You too could spend less time here and more time making money doing what you suggest I should.

The level of trolling on GFY is dropping.

10.00 pm and I'm off to bed. Eva dragged me out to the city for a walk and it has shattered me. See you guys in the mo

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Barry-xlovecam

90%+ that walk into a supermarket buy
75%+ that walk into a Walmart or Tesco buy
90%+ of visitors to Netflix are paying customers
50% +(?) of tube visitors are ad viewers.

No one rides for free really.

People don't buy what they can get for free that doesn't mean that some content is not free

Content is king -- always has been ... but if it is stolen and given away free it becomes commoditized and spirals down to the lowest common denominator -- free. Don't produce any new porn for 10 years and tubes will become archives of old content and die.

Last man standing always wins

dig420

I don't remember anyone telling you were wrong, or telling you anything at all. It's also not as if you're the only one who noticed tube sites when they came out. As a has-been, please believe me that it's annoying as hell to see a never-was posting like the voice of God about what we all did wrong when you don't actually know the first thing about it. You've always just been a guy with a ton of opinions, which you pretend are facts, who's never really done anything besides 2nd rate content which, imo, you only do so you can get your hands on the bitches.

Nothing wrong with that. Just quit pretending you're some kind of expert. There are people who've forgotten more than you'll ever know about this business that still got rolled over by tube sites. You're nobody's guru. Show me your dating sites. Show me your cam sites. Show me something besides very amateurish paysites and pics of you rubbing yourself all over the women you hire to allow you to do that. Just stay in your lane man... I hardly ever come here anymore but everytime I do I see you pontificating like you're fucking Gandalf. You're not. You're more like one of the hobbits who stayed home lol

dig420

I don't know what Shap's deal is. I see him always making threads about partnering up with someone but I never see him do it.

The Porn Nerd

Exactly.

(And Paul I spend about fifteen mins a day on GFY. LOL)

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mechanicvirus

Around 2010/2011 I thought this would be the natural progression of tubes and content but every time I read a new producer coming into the industry, a lot of times they will start off with "honestly, i do this as a hobby first, career second" so I have a feeling the producer to tube content pipeline isn't going anywhere soon.

INever

OK, so let's say I find some sharp girls who are willing to pose and also do some cam.
What's to stop them from going direct? What's to keep them around? Besides my charm, nothing except getting the same % they get at myfreecams. So there go my margins.

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AdultKing

I thought the walls of text were going to be a thing of the past if Paul was allowed back on this forum.

INever

Just went on myfreecams for the first time in a long time. All those girls have to perform naked now 24/7. (Been like that for years already, actually).

Agree with PM. It's just a race to the bottom in this business. Hard to stomach but even the biggest are going to fold up shop within a generation.

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dig420

Your traffic. Duh.

dig420

The hollywood industry is putting a lot of pressure on Congress to do something about putlocker etc, and they have a lot ofpolitical muscle. If anything is ever going to happen to change things, that's where it's going to start, because whatever laws they put in place to protect copyright for mainstream cinema will also apply to adult content. Of course, that doesn't address overseas companies, hosts etc, but I'm betting they'll eventually figure out a way to put a cap on it. Kill the tubes and paysites will be viable again. It will never be like it was, but it will be better.

AdultKing

Tubes aren't going anywhere soon. Youtube is the base model of tube sites and Youtube just grows every year. Pornhub and XVideos are two of the most visited sites on the net. That happened due to consumer demand.

File Lockers and Torrents are the bigger threat than tubes because they carry content that caters to the porn connoisseur. People typically visit tube sites for an array of content. People turn to file lockers and torrents to complete their collections of niche porn, grab siterips and so forth.

The porn connoisseur will pay to access their thing if it's not downloadable for free and a tube site won't satisfy them.

dig420

File lockers and torrents are NOTHING. Nothing at all compared to tubes, a fucking gnat on an elephants knee. Usenet has been around since BEFORE day one and everybody did just fine. There was ZERO drop in business until tubes came out, and there is no credible argument otherwise. I was here. I know. Tubes are the problem, they have always been the problem. Period. The fact that you even try to make that argument while taking money from tubes is what destroyed your credibility to begin with. It's not a rational argument to even attempt to make.

Consumer demand has nothing to do with it. People want shit they can't have, there are millions of examples of that. There's a consumer demand for cocaine and free pussy. So what? You can apply that argument to anything, including torrents and file lockers. Not to mention most file lockers charge for access and your average porn consumer wouldn't recognize a torrent if i bit them in the face. The ones that do know how to torrent aren't our target audience, those are the same guys who were on usenet and maintaining lists of FTP repositories before torrents were a gleam in Bram Cohen's eye.

dig420

why don't you go type in 'barbi sinclair' into google or bing. Or any other search engine. Check out the results. Then come back and tell me file lockers are my problem.

AdultKing

Number one result is

Barbi Sinclair - The Official Website of Barbi Sinclair
Barbi Sinclair - The Official Website of Barbi Sinclair
Barbi Sinclair. I love to dance, and I love after hours parties! But what I really love is the pick-up of a young stud with a bbc to make my pussy feel really good!

don't see the problem there.

The other 9 results are tubes and only 3 are the real ones, the rest are those stupid affiliate run embed tubes (with no value) that Google still can't manage to filter from the SERPS.

dig420

Actually 24 of the first 30 results are tubes promising absolutely free video and plenty of it, 2 are domain name squatters, 1 is an entry in a porn star directory, 1 is a facebook page with tube links and 1 is a torrent site. 9 out of 10 links on the index page are tubes giving away what I'm trying to sell. The real site has one result, which thankfully is the top spot. So I guess I don't have to worry about the other 29 links on the first three pages after all! Lucky me. After that we have another 20 or so tube results and then a torrent coming in at 53. I'm guessing that out of 499,000 results for those keywords, at least a good 3% are torrents, 95% are tubes and about 2% are results beneficial to me. You can refuse to acknowledge that the sky is blue all you want. Everybody can still go outside and look up.

Now you can go ahead and ask me the relevant question. Which would I rather erase from google: the 95% of bad results or the 3%?

And you don't see a problem? How hard, exactly, are you looking?

AdultKing

It's not my problem and that's really all that matters

The real tubes are here, they're going to stay here and they satisfy the inevitable customer demand for porn on tap in the same way as Youtube provides everything else on tap.

I do have a problem with the fake tubes, the embedded video tubes, the stupid hotlinking, embedding, no value to anyone tubes that their owners think is the shizzle and Google let clutter up the SERPS from the good shit. One day Google will really do something about thin content - rather than just talk about it - and you'll be left with the big tubes dominating search because they're data driven and smart.

Your content is on tubes and you don't want it there ? Like I am going to care about that ? I don't care about that. This is an industry that bleats like a lost lamb about piracy but never did a fucking thing about it. Stiff. Pornhub, XVideos, and their ilk will keep making bank while the mostly lethargic content producers do fuck all. Tubes are so established now and rely on the legislation that allows piracy (DMCA) to keep it all legal.

Consumers spoke and smart people listened then made a lot of money catering to consumer wants. That's capitalism and if you got stood on in the process, stiff shit.

Paul Markham can keep on blathering on about the content, like he knows anything, his content was as contrived as a Mormon wedding. He sprouts on about this and that but everyone else but him knows he's an old man, losing his marbles and talking about the good old days, Paul Markham in reality is nothing but a sad pervert who managed to scrape together a living, pretending to be a porn producer just to get pussy.

The bottom line is that the consumers drive what happens in this industry. Not the navel gazing, self important and egotistical cogs in the wheel that do nothing with an ounce of innovation.

If you want to see a combination of innovation and catering to consumer wants then look no further than companies like Fuck You Cash or people like Fabian or JT. These are examples of those who understand what the consumers want and can innovate to give it to them. Most of the rest of the industry are lazy fucks who over estimate their self worth - because the consumers don't care about them at all.

It's technology, innovation and fucking awesome content that will drive this industry forward but it won't be the Paul Markham's of the world doing it. It will be the smart guys who innovate and understand that you can't put the tube genie back in the bottle, you need to exploit the tubes to further an innovative business.

My advice to anyone reading this who wants to make money in porn ? Learn to fucking code.

dig420

See how easy that was? Now you're being honest for the first time since you came here.

If you don't give a shit, that's fine. I can respect that. Just don't be a hypocrite. Don't get on your soapbox.

As far as Paul Markham goes, you are correct. He just wanted to fondle some women, he knew he could do it if he paid them to model and that's about the extent of his knowledge.

AdultKing

The big tubes buy content and lots of it. File lockers and Torrent Sites don't.

The big tubes mostly comply with the DMCA. Most File Lockers and Torrent Sites don't.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. I killed off some really big file lockers while I had the support to do so, now it's not really something I think too much about. As you say, one adapts to the circumstances presented to them.

For the most part though, the future of this industry will be forged by accountants, lawyers and innovators. The content itself has become a commodity. It's innovation that's in short supply.

dig420

I can tell you one thing: when tubes came out I just assumed they were so wildly illegal that somebody with deep pockets would take them out, like we did with Acacia. I won't make that assumption again. Next big thing, I'm getting on the bandwagon early.

INever

For whatever reason google does not WANT to filter tube results.

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AdultKing

That's a smart attitude, always strike while the iron is hot.

AdultKing

Actually in reality Google do filter out the spammy embed tubes rather well, however it's a rolling problem.

If you look at SERP ranking history for spammy tubes you will see that there is very little stability, while Pornhub, XVideos and the other tubes actually hosting videos do retain their rankings.

The issue comes down to one of scale. So many new embedded tube sites are made every day that the Panda algorithm can't keep up. There are thousands of people creating these things and when they get crawled they see a little bump on keywords.

As Panda now processes at crawl speed, there is a delay between the time a spammy tube hits the index and gets ranking on some keywords and when Panda wipes out the ranking again.

Add that to the problem that Penguin hasn't been updated for ages, so these same spammy tube sites build lots of spammy links which hold them up artificially in ranking. If Penguin was finally run again then this would wipe out the sites that have held up ranking positions due to links.

Google plays a never ending game of cat and mouse with the spammy tubes. Eventually Google wins but not before more spammy tubes take the place of those that Google demotes.

The big tube sites have relatively stable rankings because they actually host the content and they also have a great user experience in Google's eyes, bounce rates are low and traffic is huge.

Google just need a way to speed up the process of Panda dealing with thin content sites and roll out Penguin again. The SEO world has been holding it's breath waiting for Penguin to roll out again, but everyone is turning blue in the process because Google keep delaying it for reasons only known to Google.

Paul Markham

I agree.

For 100 years (?) the porn industry rode the wave of selling the 20-minute jerk off. Then in 1997 (?) online porn started to make paying for jerking off redundant. 2016 and 50% (?) use ad blockers, of those who see the ads 96% (?) ignore them. Of those that click and 99.9% (?) don't buy. Of those that view a porn scene 99.995% (?) don't buy.

In those 19 years, the product has changed little, it went from images to video, digital SD to HD, 3D 4k flopped and now everyone is pinning their hopes on VR.

And all the solutions offered by affiliates are going to fail as well. America voters know if they want change the people who screwed up, aren't the ones to offer change. Online porn is the same. The only way to gain more sales is to change the product. Not people like S4B, he's in a minor niche which has suffered a lot less from free porn.

(?) As for waiting 10 years to see Tubes run out of content. In 2026 (?) the sites that can afford to produce content, will start giving them to Tubes again. (?)

I want to discuss changing the product. Where are those who are capable of that?

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Paul Markham

Offer positive ideas and stop trying to bring down those who do.

You lie about me and the models. I can show you all the front covers with my content in, or all the magazine sets we shot or my bank account. The fact that I got across the finishing line by 35 years of doing nothing but producing porn. Is all the testament you need to know.

As for "Show me" you show me your sites.

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dig420

lol are you serious right now?

Also, selling photosets to Screw magazine 30 years ago has zero bearing on your webmastering skills, such as they are, in the past or in the present. It's no big secret what you've done in this industry, and everybody who does know something is telling you that your talk way outpaces your achievements and your knowledge. Why don't you listen? Do you have anything going on besides this board? If not, I'll just walk away and let you do you. Because that would be sad.

Paul Markham

The future of Tubes relies on ad sales.

When companies lie this can make a profit from ads, Tubes are secure.


http://type2diabetesdestroyer.com/special/v1/


The ED Reverser

These are professional selling and marketing examples. Take note porn industry.

This is the future of your income depends on. Ads directing people to professional sites. Not sites that have changed little for 10 years.

For Brazzers it's free traffic.

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Paul Markham

It's easy, you pay them more than they would working for themselves.

Exactly what I thought. If a Webmaster can't deliver more money, not traffic, than the girl can by working Independently, he deserves to be dumped.

The problem is more and more girls are able to generate more money working Independently that they can working for a webmaster. The webmaster changes or the girls leave.

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AdultKing

I think Paul needs a rest.

The old man who knows everything howling at the sky crying "why won't they listen to me, I know how to make it all work".

Paul, you are so out of touch that it isn't funny. In fact I have serious concerns for your wellbeing. You don't seem to understand where things are online in 2016.

All online publishing has largely become centralised in the hands of a few, it's not just porn.

I haven't seen the word innovation work it's way into your walls of text, I don't think you understand that large successful porn companies are now data driven and work from real business principles, not the ideas of a has been, could have been, self described expert in pornography.

You have no idea what the Gen Y or Millennial consumers of porn want, how they want to consume it, what they want to see and how they share content. I'm pretty sure that if you had a clue about any of these things then you'd shut up out of utter embarrassment.

Paul Markham

Do MFC get more traffic and money by making the girls go naked? End of that debate.

The problem is as free porn escalated, all webmasters did was to work harder at making it escalate faster. The day B?W dropped in price Tubes were inevitable. The problem is webmasters haven't changed the product of the marketing and selling. Quantity over quality all the time. Barbi Sinclair nice site but so 1990s product. A girl sucking off a guy is the main marketing theme. 2016 it should be more like the other sites who can monetise Tube traffic.

The problem is webmasters with no clue about porn.

This guy thinks I spent $500 to $1,000 per shoot to fondle girls.

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AdultKing

Well it certainly wasn't to invest in a venture that would set you up for life. You haven't got much to show for that investment now, other than your outrage that the real adult industry thinks you're just a silly old man.

Paul Markham

Tell us how you would nake it work. Not another place for people to put their blog texts, that's not the way forward.

I showed three sites that were monetising Tube Traffic. One was a "free Ad". A very well thought out design, of content that hasn't changed for 50 years. People fucking. So a bad conversion rate.

The other two were good. The viewer is immediately hit with something to draw them in. Not a picture of something that's cloned a million times, a video telling people the benefits of the product.

Trying to sell 500 (?) fuck videos for $30 in a world where 500,000 are given away free is so upside down it's no wonder conversion rates are awful.

Trying to sell a webcam girl typing, or pretending to, and looking at a screen, when 100s are talking to the viewers is yesterday's model.

Trying to keep webcam girls when they can earn more Independently won't work. Piling more traffic that doesn't but her also won't keep her.

Change to marketing and selling the real product rather than dumping traffic on a site.

Do you know how to do that?

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Paul Markham

When did you hack my bank account?

Can you offer any advice to stop the decline of your income?

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AdultKing

Come on Paul, you've told the board before that you live off a pension and that your wife works to make a living for you both.

My income isn't declining.

Paul Markham

I live off private pensions, which are more than enough to allow Eva not to work. The notion of having her at home all day is too scary to contemplate. She's a career girl and work stop her managing me.

Do you see how easy it is to make a false statement on a board? No one knows about your income or mine, this could all be bullshit.

What we do know is porn is becoming less lucrative because fewer are buying, most sales go to other people, the big guys and on webcam to Independent girls and the big sites.

If you want to discuss ways to maintain your income, join in offer suggestions. Or stay out.

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Paul Markham

A pornographer doesn't need data to know what men like to jerk off to. He has decades of experience and the proof is that mainstream porn hasn't changed a jot, except in image quality, for 50 years. Boy meets girl, boy fucks girl. Credits roll. The difference are the styles the fucking is done in.

All that is redundant today because there are 500,000 (?) free Boy meets girl, boy fucks girl videos online. Anyone who needs data to tell which movies will sell best shouldn't be in porn. Data is more exacting but not crucial.

The problem now is even with data it's pointless if the same style video is online for free. So a huge shift in how the product is manufactured, marketed and sold needs to be approached. What can a consumer get from a pornsite that isn't available for free?

Webcams still sell and now we have a new part of that market outselling the older style. Because of what many men want from porn. The fantasy that the girl will do it with them or for them, they want more than a voyeuristic porn scene.

Girls on Chaturbate and similar who talk to the viewer do better than girls in a Third World Studio who need someone else to type in English. Because the men empathise with her. Pre-selling girls like this is easy, if given the tools, so not clips of her typing with music in te background. Promotional material needs to be shot away from the webcam camera.

Can webmasters produce this? No. Can pornographers? Yes.

Once you said Data Driven, I knew you were a webmaster, a pornographer can see little has changed and doesn't need data to know hot porn. His dick does it for him it makes him an expert.

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AdultKing

Correct, it's not possible to verify income on a forum, however here are some indisputable, independently verifiable facts.

I am the director of a mainstream Internet & IT company which occupies two premises in Melbourne. One is in the most expensive street in the Melbourne CBD on the ninth floor of a high rise tower. It employs 17 local people and 12 offshore and that's growing. It's businesses provide services at both a B2B and Consumer level. It maintains a 24/7/365 call centre for three of the businesses that the company owns. Each business in the group has it's own website, it's own phone numbers, it's own staff and physically occupies two, soon to be three locations. It's all on my LinkedIn, so while I cannot prove on a forum that I make an income from it, it's demonstrable and verifiable that it all exists. The investment required to build that business didn't come from thin air and I've never inherited any substantial sum of money. Hard work and determination was the major investment that built that company from nothing to what it is now, in less than five years.

During the glory days from 1994/1995 I made a load of cash from online porn, some of it thanks to your content, however when I set up my first porn site you could make thousands of dollars a day just from a single site with a .htpasswd protected folder of a few hundred low resolution photos. My mistake with all that money and my relative youth was to spend it all. It was a hard lesson to learn, but being a pornographer didn't teach me that lesson, being business minded did. It's a mistake I just wasn't going to make again.

Admittedly you have an interesting past, but you've never demonstrated to anyone, that I have seen, that you've actually built something that will outlast you, that makes a difference or that is of tangible substance.

Pornographers, in the sense of the word you use it, rarely have the skills to turn their content into pure profit. That takes business people and contemporary business people understand the value of data driven strategies.

While you're taking the photos, the business people are testing, split testing, analysing, optimising until they have the right combination of content to make sales. Those sales are made based on careful analysis of what converts and what doesn't. Smart companies keep refining their processes until they can reasonably predict what will work, test it, prove it then implement it to turn profit.

Guys like CrakMedia have this down to a fine art. Mindgeek certainly do, they have so much data from Pornhub alone that they can test a campaign and know if it will work within an hour. Then they will squeeze every last cent out of the campaign making big big bucks.

You can tell the smart companies from the amateurs satisfying their personal little peccadilloes. The smart companies are big, employ lots of coders, designers, marketers, representatives, lawyers, accountants but where is the "pornographer" in all that ? He's not driving the success. Nobody will remember which guys photographed and filmed Bree Olson, but they'll remember Bree Olson. Why ? Because of smart companies marketing her.

You as the photographer know nothing except the couple of grand you might get for some exclusive content. However in your case it's being blown out by some wanker for $500 the lot. Some of it's on AdultCentro, which was a smart move on your part, because as critical I am of you even I have bought some - but as filler content - not as stuff that will make sales.

It's 2016 Paul, things have changed. You might have been a "pornographer" once but you have no idea what the Tinder generation want now. Even I don't profess to, which is why I make decisions based on the advice I seek out and the data I gather. Because frankly, data doesn't lie. You can have the most professionally shot content you can imagine and for some reason that emotion can't tell you it doesn't convert - but that data will tell you.

Barry-xlovecam

You got trolled son

Paul is a legend in is own mind.

No one knows what any private business' revenues or net income is.
You can only speculate -- so what the fuck is the point?

Show me the 10K or STFU
10K (is a quarterly US security exchange filing, other countries other names -- same thing )

AdultKing

Yep, I did. My bad.

Relic

INever

Paul, MFC isn't making the girls go naked. That's actually an absurd statement. It's the current race to the bottom global capitalistic system that's doing that, forcing most companies large and small to deliver more and more "value", while pricing remains constant.

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The Porn Nerd

Folks we have a winner!

Now get naked so you can add more value to this post.

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Bladewire

This is where having a kid has benefited me greatly in knowing the communication methods / platforms that are trending and the ones going out of style and why. The days of getting sales through the old porn supply chains were gone for me years ago, yet people still pay for traffic, not knowing the source, & aggressively court affiliates to pay them half their profit, amazing.

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Paul Markham

Agree I made loads of money shooting for a part of the industry that made enough money to pay well for the product. I have no webmastering skills, I'm hopeless at all the links thing and putting up free porn, what else does a webmaster do?

No big secret I had a successful Content Store also.

Now that you finished with the hater, what else can you offer?

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Paul Markham

I see what you're saying and agree.

For 16 years the race has been on to see who can give away the most jerk offs for free. While the porn sales continue to decline and online non-porn sales grow.

I'm trying to discuss changing what we sell.

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Relic

The girlfriend experience?

Paul Markham

Examine who's advertising on Tubes to see who can monetise the traffic. How many are pornsites independent of the Tube owner. Affiliate sales are paid after the join and Tubes do need the best content to keep traffic levels higher than their competitors. Win-win for the paysite company and Tube owner.

I found this interesting.

Judging on what's liked the most on Tubes, what the top companies produce, the "Tinder Generation" want the same as their Dads did.

Does a credit card give the age of the buyer? If not it's impossible to pinpoint what an age group buys all we have is vague evidence. In 1990 we believed older men liked teens, leg sex, big tits, younger men bought Milf. Most liked amateur. It directed the way we shot the porn.

I suspect the Tinder Generation like free porn, does anyone have evidence of otherwise? Like more than 1% actually buy porn?

My approach now is guided by marketing data. 99.99% who want a quick jerk off won't pay for it. There's a portion of the market that wants more than a jerk off, we have to deliver the right product to that market.

Those who have replied so far are bent on slinging abuse, have nothing else to offer and need to be ignored.

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